On 5/20/2012 3:06 PM, meekerdb wrote:

On 5/20/2012 9:27 AM, Stephen P. King wrote:On 5/20/2012 6:06 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:## Advertising

In Bruno's theory, the physical world is not computed by analgorithm, the physical world is the limit of all computations goingthrought your current state... what is computable is your currentstate, an infinity of computations goes through it. So I don't seethe problem here, the UD is not an algorithm which computes thephysical world 4D or whatever.QuentinHi Quentin,Maybe you can answer some questions. These might be badlycomposed so feel free to "fix" them. ;-)1) If my "current state" is equivalent to a 4-manifold and the "next"state is also, what is connecting the two? Markov's proof tells usthat it is not a algorithm. So what is it?I don't think Markov's theorem tells you that. It says there can beno algorithm that will determine the homomorphy of any two arbitrarycompact 4-manifolds. But there is nothing that says the next statecan be any arbitrary 4-manifold. In most theories it is an evolutionof the Cauchy data on the present manifold, where 'present' is definedby some time slice.

Dear Quentin,

`"there can be no algorithm that will determine the homomorphy of`

`any two arbitrary compact 4-manifolds" Exactly. The physical theories`

`that are used today and accepted as fact define our objective universe`

`as a "compact 3,1-manifold"(up to isomorphisms), this includes "time" as`

`a dimension. There is only a technical difference between a 3,1-manifold`

`and a 4-manifold.`

`My point is that for there to exist an a priori given string of`

`numbers that is equivalent our universe there must exist a computation`

`of the homomorphies between all possible 4-manifolds. Markov theorem`

`tells us that no such homomorphy exists, therefore our universe cannot`

`be considered to be the result of a computation in the Turing universal`

`sense. It is well known that the act of defining an exact "time slice"`

`is a computationally intractable problem, the Cauchy surface problem`

`<http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CE8QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tapir.caltech.edu%2F%7Elindblom%2FPublications%2F10_CommMathPhys.61.87.pdf&ei=G1O5T9y1NYG69QT036GoCg&usg=AFQjCNGQxEJa9DEFbyKnXiub-nS7zvPksw&sig2=9za6duwSbfQp-yZ_Cj6vzA>.`

`Physicists use approximations and cheats to get around this intractability.`

2) Is there another equivalent set of words for "the physical worldis the limit of all computations going through your current state"?3) Is there at least one physical system running the computations? Isthe "physical universe" a purely subjective appearance/experience foreach conscious entity? What is it that shifts from one state to thenext?Well that's a crucial question. Bruno assumes that truth impliesexistence.

`I agree with that claim. An entity must exist for there to be a`

`true representation of it.`

So if 1+1=2 is true that implies that 1, +, =, and 2 exist.

`No, existence does not determine or define properties, it is the`

`mere necessary possibility of such. Just because some unstated sentence`

`may be true and its referents might exist does nothing to the`

`determination of the properties of said sentence or its referents.`

`Properties are determined by physical acts of measurement and by nothing`

`else, therefore the meaning of the sentence "1+1=2" is indefinite in the`

`absence of a physical means to evaluate the sentence.`

I think this is a doubtful proposition; particularly when talkingabout infinities. Even if every number has a successor is true, whatexistence is implied? Just the non-existence of a number with nosuccessor.4) What is the cardinality of "all computations"?Aleph1.

Is the content of Alph_1 sufficient to represent all knowledge?

5) Is the totality of what exists static and timeless and are all ofthe subsets of that totality static and timeless as well?6) Does all "succession of events" emerge only from the well orderingof Natural numbers?

Do you understand these questions? -- Onward! Stephen "Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed." ~ Francis Bacon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.