On 9/16/2012 12:49 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:


On Sunday, September 16, 2012 12:13:57 PM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King wrote:

    On 9/16/2012 8:42 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:


    On Saturday, September 15, 2012 6:21:14 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote:

        Moreover, this
        set has subsets, and we can limit our discussion to these
        subsets. For
        example, if we are interested only in mass, we can simulate a
        human
        perfectly using the right number of rocks. Even someone who
        believes
        in an immortal soul would agree with this.


    No, I don't agree with it at all. You are eating the menu. A
    quantity of mass doesn't simulate anything except in your mind.
    Mass is a normative abstraction which we apply in comparing
    physical bodies with each other. To reduce a human being to a
    physical body is not a simulation is it only weighing a bag of
    organic molecules.

        Thus we can realistically claim that the physical world is
    exactly and only all things that we (as we truly are) have in
    common. What must be understood is that as the number of
    participating entities increase to infinity, the number of "things
    in common" goes to zero. Only for a large but finite set of
    entities will there be a semi-large number of relations that the
    entities have in common and not have a degeneracy relation between
    them.


That's exactly the backbone equivalence of multisense realism. As the most common denominators, the characteristics of quanta are the most impersonal and common forms of qualia. Because of the privacy of qualia, it really drains almost everything out of it to make it shared to the point of near universality. Qualia drained of most quality is really involuted qualia, but because it has no existence of its own, it doesn't commute the other way around. Qualia isn't involuted quanta, as quanta isn't anything without first being qualia.

Both logical algebras and topologies are quanta. They are reductions of qualia, not particles or qualia-free informaiton which generate qualia. An mp3 file is a compression, not of music, but of the articulations of current which matches the acoustic dynamic conditions associated with sound perception. We can intellectually match the data of the mp3 file with any external topology (eardrum, needle on vinyl, speaker, laser pits on a CD, etc), and the logical algebra which (figuratively) animates that topology ( f(mp3)), but they only relate to each other, and not any kind of subjective experience.


        A black Hole is a nice demonstration of the degeneracy idea.
    The effect of gravity is the force of degeneracy, when all the
    ground states are forces to normalize and become identical with
    each other, the "space" and "delay" (time) that is different
    between them collapses to zero and thus we get singularity in the
    limit of the degeneracy.


That's cool. I can see that in my terms too, with gravity being like Kryptonite to motive participation. Systems lose their ability to differentiate themselves from a large mass.

Craig

    Horray! We bisimulate!


--
Onward!

Stephen

http://webpages.charter.net/stephenk1/Outlaw/Outlaw.html

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