On 02 Oct 2012, at 11:27, Roger Clough wrote:

Bruno and all,

I have not infrequently brought up the need for a "self"
in your models. Why do you need to include a self or 1p
in your models ?

There are two ways of looking at something:

a) the objective material, which is the raw material
without an observer. The impersonal, scientific version.
This is just "stuff" and it has no meaning
by itself. Peirce called it Firstness.

OK. And with comp, Plotinus or Plato, it does not really exist. It is not part of the being. It is the shadow of a vaster reality only.

b) a subjective account of the material, which
is the meaning of the "stuff".

Hmm... I would say tha the stuff is only a part of the meaning, which is only a part of what a person is.

It is the objective
material filtered through an individual's consciousness.
I think that is somehow related to 1p.

OK. (with objective = sharable by all persons)

It is
the "stuff" as experienced, the meaning of the stuff.
From a particular point of view, such as an individual
monad would perceive.

Perhaps I should interpret your monad by person, simply. Or generalized person.

Secondness is the meaning of the experience to the individual,
or Firstness from a particular point of view.

Thirdness is Secondness expressed to others.

I think that looking at the raw stuff without filtering
it through an individual's "eyes"-- the objective account--
will not completely tell you how well that raw account
emulates life.  You need to 1p filter it to get its meaning.

No problem. With comp the moon is no more stuffy than a spaceship in a video game, except that most spaceship video game are only some years old, the moon and stars are basically as old as the physical universe. But they are not made of stuff, and comp is only in its infancy, so that it can still take time before we really apprehend that stuffy aspect.

With comp (assuming no flaws, etc.) things goes like this (roughly speaking)


and then only ===> PARTICULAR DREAMS SHARING (physical realities).



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