On Thursday, October 25, 2012 1:29:24 AM UTC-4, Brent wrote:
>
>  On 10/24/2012 10:19 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: 
>
>
>
> On Thursday, October 25, 2012 1:10:24 AM UTC-4, Brent wrote: 
>>
>>  On 10/24/2012 9:23 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: 
>>
>> Or what if we don't care?  We don't care about slaughtering cattle, which 
>>> are pretty smart 
>>> as computers go.  We manage not to think about starving children in 
>>> Africa, and they *are* 
>>> humans.  And we ignore the looming disasters of oil depletion, water 
>>> pollution, and global 
>>> warming which will beset humans who are our children. 
>>>
>>
>> Sure, yeah I wouldn't expect mainstream society to care, except maybe for 
>> some people, I am mainly focused on what seems to be like an astronomically 
>> unlikely prospect that we will someday find it possible to make a person 
>> out of a program, but won't be able to just make the program itself and no 
>> person attached. 
>>
>>
>> Right. John McCarthy (inventor of LISP) worried and wrote about that 
>> problem decades ago.  He cautioned that we should not make robots conscious 
>> with emotions like humans because then it would be unethical use them like 
>> robots.
>>  
>
> It's arbitrary to think of robots though. It can be anything that 
> represents computation to something. An abacus, a card game, anything. 
> Otherwise it's prejudice based on form. 
>  
>>  
>>  Especially given that we have never made a computer program that can do 
>> anything whatsoever other than reconfigure whatever materials are able to 
>> execute the program, I find it implausible that there will be a magical 
>> line of code which cannot be executed without an experience happening to 
>> someone. 
>>
>>
>> So it's a non-problem for you.  You think that only man-born-of-woman or 
>> wetware can be conscious and have qualia.  Or are you concerned that we are 
>> inadvertently offending atoms all the time?
>>  
>
> Everything has qualia, but only humans have human qualia. Animals have 
> animal qualia, organisms have biological qualia, etc.
>  
>
> So computers have computer qualia.
>

I would say that computer parts have silicon qualia. I don't think the 
computer parts cohere into a computer except in our minds.

 

>   Do their qualia depend on whether they are sold-state or vacuum-tube?  
> germanium or silicon?  PNP or NPN?  Do they feel different when they run 
> LISP or C++?
>

Nah, its all inorganic low level qualia is my guess. Temperature, density, 
electronic tension and release.

 

> Do you have Craig qualia? 
>

 Sure. All the time.


>   
>  
>>  
>>  No matter how hard we try, we can never just make a drawing of these 
>> functions just to check our math without invoking the power of life and 
>> death. It's really silly. It's not even good Sci-Fi, it's just too lame.
>>  
>>
>> I think we can, because although I like Bruno's theory I think the MGA is 
>> wrong, or at least incomplete.  I think the simulated intelligence needs a 
>> simulated environment, essentially another world, in which to *be* 
>> intelligent.  And that's where your chalk board consciousness fails.  It 
>> needs to be able to interact within a chalkboard world.  So it's not just a 
>> question of going to a low enough level, it's also a question of going to a 
>> high enough level.
>>  
>
> A chalkboard world just involves a larger chalkboard.
>  
>
> Right.  And it involves great chalkboard sex - but none we need worry 
> about.
>

To me, there is no chalkboard world. It's all dusty and flat. Not much sexy 
going on, except maybe for beaten erasers.

Craig 

>
> Brent
>  

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