THe problem with solar energy is that it is strongly subsidized. Instead of
you being stolen by "monopolistic" energy companies, you can steal the
taxpayer thank to state planning.

Most solar panels are installed because they receive subsidies by KW. As a
logical consequience a boost in production is expected. In fact they
produced electricity even in the night at full level. ... With some help of
 pirate electrogenerators working with fossil fuels, hidden near then. Many
governments, ruined by this authentic robbery or all these ecological
friends of the planet, had to switch the schema of subsidies, to a fixed
schema, that donĀ“t take into account the production.
That foreseeable bureaucratic move had the foreseeable consequences: That
rendered the most productive and expensive and technologically advanced
panels a ruinous investment. Technological development has stopped and
engineers fired. Because the subsidies is independent of production now,
most of them don care to maintain the panels. Most of them do not plug them
to the transmission lines and generate the minimum required of production
 at sun ours with less fossil fuel generators while they receive the solar
subsidies.

According with the subsidies contracts, made at the peak of the bubble,
countries like Spain and Germany have compromises of payment that they will
not have enough money from taxpayers to pay now and in the coming years.
The had to break contracts and reduce subsidies, damaging the credibility
of the judicial system, many best producers lost their investments and only
the worst  had benefits. Most of them, big companies which had contact with
the government  and knew in advance the changes so they reacted accordingly
to have the maximum cost-benefit with the less investment.

Those that were conscious that what the panels produce is not electricity
forever, but suck money from the taxpayers  as long as the subsidy plans
were active, won.

And this is the result of just another wonderful state planning experiment


2013/1/14 Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net>

> Hi Platonist Guitar Cowboy
>
> A more powwerful way to steal from the future is to continue govt spending
> as it is.
>
> But to get back to the issue, I'll let the market decide.
>
> [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
> 1/14/2013
> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
> ----- Receiving the following content -----
> From: Platonist Guitar Cowboy
> Receiver: everything-list
> Time: 2013-01-13, 09:50:52
> Subject: Re: Re: The unpredictability of solar energy
>
>
> Hi Roger
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Roger Clough  wrote:
>
> Hi Platonist Guitar Cowboy
>
> I always let the market decide.
>
>
> Please. It's peoples' behavior that determines market. And it has decided:
> you can steal from the coming generations by allowing energy industry to
> continue stealing from you or you can work to lower long term costs for
> your friends and family, the people you live with, local interests and
> community, energy independence and profit in long term.
>
> But sure, go ahead, think that gas and utilities prices will keep falling
> as dramatically as they have.
>
> ?
> You can't go wrong that way.
>
>
>
> I doubt Leibniz would agree. Harnessing energy all around us instead of
> burning, drilling etc. is the least materialistic prospect for now,
> concerning energy.
>
> Additionally, both Jesus and numbers of straight market economics over the
> long run, and if you're smart even in short to mid term (I know people who
> are making profit TODAY by mixing their energy needs with contributing
> energy themselves; the moment you can afford to do this, it makes sense
> from any economic point of view), do not cohere with your infallibility
> derived from market + short-term perspective. Also, you could consider
> dealing the most harmful, addictive drugs and/or get into organized crime:
>
> the market has decided these to be very lucrative. But drop the Jesus and
> God talk for now on, because your usage and relationship to personal
> theology seems pretty clear now. Thanks for sharing.
>
> PGC
> --------------
>
>
> ?
>
> [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
> 1/13/2013
>
> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
>
> ----- Receiving the following content -----
> From: Platonist Guitar Cowboy
> Receiver: everything-list
> Time: 2013-01-12, 11:06:43
> Subject: Re: The unpredictability of solar energy
>
>
> Hi Roger,
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Roger Clough ?rote:
>
> The unpredictability of solar energy
>
> ?
>
> I've lost the page ref for the graph below, but it's typical
> of numerous other graphs of the daily variation in solar energy on the
> internet.
> (For a comparison see solar variations on
>
>
> http://www.bigindianabass.com/big_indiana_bass/2010/01/yearly-water-temps-precip-and-solar-energy.html
> ?)
> ?
>
> The hourly variation would be much worse, since the sun does not shine at
> night.
>
> ?
>
> The variation from day to day is unpredicatable and enormous,
>
> going from?ear 0 Ly to almost 100 Ly. This is probably due to variable
>
> cloud cover, not auto exhaust emissions.
>
> ?
>
> I'll stay with conventional electric power, thank you very much.
>
> ?
> ?
>
> ?
> ?
>
> Ly. Langley, a measurement of solar energy. One langley is equal to one
> gram-calorie per square centimeter.
> A gram-calorie is the amount of heat required to raise the temperature of
> one gram of water one degree Celsius.
>
> ?
> ?
>
>
> Good for you but perhaps bad for your wallet in long term. In Germany,
> many are starting to see that independence from fossil fuel monopolies is
> not just ideological... it turns citizens into energy traders instead of
> big oil slaves.
>
> See:
>
>
> In Germany, where sensible federal rules have fast-tracked and streamlined
> the permit process, the costs are considerably lower. It can take as little
> as eight days to license and install a solar system on a house in Germany.
> In the United States, depending on your state, the average ranges from 120
> to 180 days. More than one million Germans have installed solar panels on
> their roofs. Australia also has a streamlined permitting process and has
> solar panels on 10 percent of its homes. Solar photovoltaic power would
> give America the potential to challenge the utility monopolies, democratize
> energy generation and transform millions of homes and small businesses into
> energy generators. Rational, market-based rules could turn every American
> into an energy entrepreneur. That transition to renewable power could
> create millions of domestic jobs and power in this country with American
> resourcefulness, initiative and entrepreneurial energy while taking a
> substantial bite out of the nation? emissions of greenhouse gases and other
> dangerous pollutants.
>
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/13/opinion/solar-panels-for-every-home.html?_r=0
>
> It's really not an ideological green vs. conservative matter. People just
> don't like being stolen from.
>
> The energy monopolies "thank YOUR wallet very much", as for solar panel
> users, we don't care if people have ideological axes to grind for which
> they want to pay, instead of trading themselves with that little patch of
> sunshine that everybody owns.
>
> For most I know, it's not an either/or thing anyway; everybody just wants
> to transition to energy that costs less in long term and that brings cash
> into the household, instead of burning it.
>
> To not give the wrong impression: these moves make politics more complex
> and we have huge problems facing us with renewable energy in terms of
> costly infrastructure and higher electricity bills in short to midterm,
> which this entails. But we can still opt for companies with fossil fuel
> based cheaper energy.
>
> And if people are starting to make money in sunny Germany where everybody
> goes for abundant sunshine and beaches, then for many parts of the US this
> would mean...
> PGC
>
> ----
>
>
>
> ?
> ?
> ?
> ?
> ?
> ?
> ?
> ?
> ?
>
> ?
> [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
> 1/12/2013
> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
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-- 
Alberto.

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