You are californian its'nt?
2013/1/14 Platonist Guitar Cowboy <[email protected]> > > > On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 2:42 PM, Alberto G. Corona <[email protected]>wrote: > >> THe problem with solar energy is that it is strongly subsidized. >> > > Yes, but this is lessening. Protectionism is crumbling. > > >> Instead of you being stolen by "monopolistic" energy companies, you can >> steal the taxpayer thank to state planning. >> >> > I am the taxpayer and this is better than weapons business or paying for > prohibition. > > >> Most solar panels are installed because they receive subsidies by KW. As >> a logical consequience a boost in production is expected. In fact they >> produced electricity even in the night at full level. ... With some help of >> pirate electrogenerators working with fossil fuels, hidden near then. Many >> governments, ruined by this authentic robbery or all these ecological >> friends of the planet, had to switch the schema of subsidies, to a fixed >> schema, that don´t take into account the production. >> > > You have to incentivize early adopters. When they are weaned off in a > couple of years, more renewable energies and their mixes will have the same > cost effectivity. > > >> That foreseeable bureaucratic move had the foreseeable consequences: >> That rendered the most productive and expensive and technologically >> advanced panels a ruinous investment. Technological development has stopped >> and engineers fired. Because the subsidies is independent of production >> now, most of them don care to maintain the panels. Most of them do not plug >> them to the transmission lines and generate the minimum required of >> production at sun ours with less fossil fuel generators while they receive >> the solar subsidies. >> > > For the first time last year; at certain times, up to half of Germany's > electricity demand were covered by mix of renewable energy. > > >> >> According with the subsidies contracts, made at the peak of the bubble, >> countries like Spain and Germany have compromises of payment that they will >> not have enough money from taxpayers to pay now and in the coming years. >> The had to break contracts and reduce subsidies, damaging the credibility >> of the judicial system, many best producers lost their investments and only >> the worst had benefits. Most of them, big companies which had contact with >> the government and knew in advance the changes so they reacted accordingly >> to have the maximum cost-benefit with the less investment. >> > > Instead of complaining now or watching what the market does, by not really > watching it á la Roger, better include the future when considering past and > present: I bet that Spain, with its sunshine monopoly and mix of renewable > energy and infrastructure investment of the last years, will be able to > fend off worst effects of economic woes in Europe when compared to Greece > etc. > > Spain will be better positioned in the next years even though it now looks > worrying. > > >> >> Those that were conscious that what the panels produce is not electricity >> forever, but suck money from the taxpayers as long as the subsidy plans >> were active, won. >> >> > Yeah, so traditional fossil fuels produce energy forever and don't cost > taxpayer any money while minimizing harm for the environment and > democratizing energy generation. And the prices keep falling. > > >> And this is the result of just another wonderful state planning experiment >> >> > A state that makes no bets on sustainability, however misguided or corrupt > they seem at the start (technology never appears in its most efficient > guise at the beginning), is undermining its own role as infrastructure > provider and governing body. Luckily more people are taking things into > their own hands: local engineers are volunteering their free time to help > render their communities and districts more sustainably through more > intelligent and locally sourced energy mixes. > > Nobody is pounding on solar exclusively: straw man. > > Thus in a non-literal sense: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTErMW2jBJA > > PGC > ------ > > > > > >> >> 2013/1/14 Roger Clough <[email protected]> >> >>> Hi Platonist Guitar Cowboy >>> >>> A more powwerful way to steal from the future is to continue govt >>> spending as it is. >>> >>> But to get back to the issue, I'll let the market decide. >>> >>> [Roger Clough], [[email protected]] >>> 1/14/2013 >>> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen >>> ----- Receiving the following content ----- >>> From: Platonist Guitar Cowboy >>> Receiver: everything-list >>> Time: 2013-01-13, 09:50:52 >>> Subject: Re: Re: The unpredictability of solar energy >>> >>> >>> Hi Roger >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Roger Clough wrote: >>> >>> Hi Platonist Guitar Cowboy >>> >>> I always let the market decide. >>> >>> >>> Please. It's peoples' behavior that determines market. And it has >>> decided: you can steal from the coming generations by allowing energy >>> industry to continue stealing from you or you can work to lower long term >>> costs for your friends and family, the people you live with, local >>> interests and community, energy independence and profit in long term. >>> >>> But sure, go ahead, think that gas and utilities prices will keep >>> falling as dramatically as they have. >>> >>> ? >>> You can't go wrong that way. >>> >>> >>> >>> I doubt Leibniz would agree. Harnessing energy all around us instead of >>> burning, drilling etc. is the least materialistic prospect for now, >>> concerning energy. >>> >>> Additionally, both Jesus and numbers of straight market economics over >>> the long run, and if you're smart even in short to mid term (I know people >>> who are making profit TODAY by mixing their energy needs with contributing >>> energy themselves; the moment you can afford to do this, it makes sense >>> from any economic point of view), do not cohere with your infallibility >>> derived from market + short-term perspective. Also, you could consider >>> dealing the most harmful, addictive drugs and/or get into organized crime: >>> >>> the market has decided these to be very lucrative. But drop the Jesus >>> and God talk for now on, because your usage and relationship to personal >>> theology seems pretty clear now. Thanks for sharing. >>> >>> PGC >>> -------------- >>> >>> >>> ? >>> >>> [Roger Clough], [[email protected]] >>> 1/13/2013 >>> >>> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen >>> >>> ----- Receiving the following content ----- >>> From: Platonist Guitar Cowboy >>> Receiver: everything-list >>> Time: 2013-01-12, 11:06:43 >>> Subject: Re: The unpredictability of solar energy >>> >>> >>> Hi Roger, >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Roger Clough ?rote: >>> >>> The unpredictability of solar energy >>> >>> ? >>> >>> I've lost the page ref for the graph below, but it's typical >>> of numerous other graphs of the daily variation in solar energy on the >>> internet. >>> (For a comparison see solar variations on >>> >>> >>> http://www.bigindianabass.com/big_indiana_bass/2010/01/yearly-water-temps-precip-and-solar-energy.html >>> ?) >>> ? >>> >>> The hourly variation would be much worse, since the sun does not shine >>> at night. >>> >>> ? >>> >>> The variation from day to day is unpredicatable and enormous, >>> >>> going from?ear 0 Ly to almost 100 Ly. This is probably due to variable >>> >>> cloud cover, not auto exhaust emissions. >>> >>> ? >>> >>> I'll stay with conventional electric power, thank you very much. >>> >>> ? >>> ? >>> >>> ? >>> ? >>> >>> Ly. Langley, a measurement of solar energy. One langley is equal to one >>> gram-calorie per square centimeter. >>> A gram-calorie is the amount of heat required to raise the temperature >>> of one gram of water one degree Celsius. >>> >>> ? >>> ? >>> >>> >>> Good for you but perhaps bad for your wallet in long term. In Germany, >>> many are starting to see that independence from fossil fuel monopolies is >>> not just ideological... it turns citizens into energy traders instead of >>> big oil slaves. >>> >>> See: >>> >>> >>> In Germany, where sensible federal rules have fast-tracked and >>> streamlined the permit process, the costs are considerably lower. It can >>> take as little as eight days to license and install a solar system on a >>> house in Germany. In the United States, depending on your state, the >>> average ranges from 120 to 180 days. More than one million Germans have >>> installed solar panels on their roofs. Australia also has a streamlined >>> permitting process and has solar panels on 10 percent of its homes. Solar >>> photovoltaic power would give America the potential to challenge the >>> utility monopolies, democratize energy generation and transform millions of >>> homes and small businesses into energy generators. Rational, market-based >>> rules could turn every American into an energy entrepreneur. That >>> transition to renewable power could create millions of domestic jobs and >>> power in this country with American resourcefulness, initiative and >>> entrepreneurial energy while taking a substantial bite out of the nation? >>> emissions of greenhouse gases and other dangerous pollutants. >>> >>> >>> >>> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/13/opinion/solar-panels-for-every-home.html?_r=0 >>> >>> It's really not an ideological green vs. conservative matter. People >>> just don't like being stolen from. >>> >>> The energy monopolies "thank YOUR wallet very much", as for solar panel >>> users, we don't care if people have ideological axes to grind for which >>> they want to pay, instead of trading themselves with that little patch of >>> sunshine that everybody owns. >>> >>> For most I know, it's not an either/or thing anyway; everybody just >>> wants to transition to energy that costs less in long term and that brings >>> cash into the household, instead of burning it. >>> >>> To not give the wrong impression: these moves make politics more complex >>> and we have huge problems facing us with renewable energy in terms of >>> costly infrastructure and higher electricity bills in short to midterm, >>> which this entails. But we can still opt for companies with fossil fuel >>> based cheaper energy. >>> >>> And if people are starting to make money in sunny Germany where >>> everybody goes for abundant sunshine and beaches, then for many parts of >>> the US this would mean... >>> PGC >>> >>> ---- >>> >>> >>> >>> ? >>> ? >>> ? >>> ? >>> ? >>> ? >>> ? >>> ? >>> ? >>> >>> ? >>> [Roger Clough], [[email protected]] >>> 1/12/2013 >>> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Alberto. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
