You are californian its'nt?

2013/1/14 Platonist Guitar Cowboy <multiplecit...@gmail.com>

>
>
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 2:42 PM, Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> THe problem with solar energy is that it is strongly subsidized.
>>
>
> Yes, but this is lessening. Protectionism is crumbling.
>
>
>>  Instead of you being stolen by "monopolistic" energy companies, you can
>> steal the taxpayer thank to state planning.
>>
>>
> I am the taxpayer and this is better than weapons business or paying for
> prohibition.
>
>
>> Most solar panels are installed because they receive subsidies by KW. As
>> a logical consequience a boost in production is expected. In fact they
>> produced electricity even in the night at full level. ... With some help of
>>  pirate electrogenerators working with fossil fuels, hidden near then. Many
>> governments, ruined by this authentic robbery or all these ecological
>> friends of the planet, had to switch the schema of subsidies, to a fixed
>> schema, that don´t take into account the production.
>>
>
> You have to incentivize early adopters. When they are weaned off in a
> couple of years, more renewable energies and their mixes will have the same
> cost effectivity.
>
>
>>  That foreseeable bureaucratic move had the foreseeable consequences:
>> That rendered the most productive and expensive and technologically
>> advanced panels a ruinous investment. Technological development has stopped
>> and engineers fired. Because the subsidies is independent of production
>> now, most of them don care to maintain the panels. Most of them do not plug
>> them to the transmission lines and generate the minimum required of
>> production  at sun ours with less fossil fuel generators while they receive
>> the solar subsidies.
>>
>
> For the first time last year; at certain times, up to half of Germany's
> electricity demand were covered by mix of renewable energy.
>
>
>>
>> According with the subsidies contracts, made at the peak of the bubble,
>> countries like Spain and Germany have compromises of payment that they will
>> not have enough money from taxpayers to pay now and in the coming years.
>> The had to break contracts and reduce subsidies, damaging the credibility
>> of the judicial system, many best producers lost their investments and only
>> the worst  had benefits. Most of them, big companies which had contact with
>> the government  and knew in advance the changes so they reacted accordingly
>> to have the maximum cost-benefit with the less investment.
>>
>
> Instead of complaining now or watching what the market does, by not really
> watching it á la Roger, better include the future when considering past and
> present: I bet that Spain, with its sunshine monopoly and mix of renewable
> energy and infrastructure investment of the last years, will be able to
> fend off worst effects of economic woes in Europe when compared to Greece
> etc.
>
> Spain will be better positioned in the next years even though it now looks
> worrying.
>
>
>>
>> Those that were conscious that what the panels produce is not electricity
>> forever, but suck money from the taxpayers  as long as the subsidy plans
>> were active, won.
>>
>>
> Yeah, so traditional fossil fuels produce energy forever and don't cost
> taxpayer any money while minimizing harm for the environment and
> democratizing energy generation. And the prices keep falling.
>
>
>> And this is the result of just another wonderful state planning experiment
>>
>>
> A state that makes no bets on sustainability, however misguided or corrupt
> they seem at the start (technology never appears in its most efficient
> guise at the beginning), is undermining its own role as infrastructure
> provider and governing body. Luckily more people are taking things into
> their own hands: local engineers are volunteering their free time to help
> render their communities and districts more sustainably through more
> intelligent and locally sourced energy mixes.
>
> Nobody is pounding on solar exclusively: straw man.
>
> Thus in a non-literal sense:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTErMW2jBJA
>
> PGC
> ------
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> 2013/1/14 Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net>
>>
>>> Hi Platonist Guitar Cowboy
>>>
>>> A more powwerful way to steal from the future is to continue govt
>>> spending as it is.
>>>
>>> But to get back to the issue, I'll let the market decide.
>>>
>>> [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
>>> 1/14/2013
>>> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
>>> ----- Receiving the following content -----
>>> From: Platonist Guitar Cowboy
>>> Receiver: everything-list
>>> Time: 2013-01-13, 09:50:52
>>> Subject: Re: Re: The unpredictability of solar energy
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Roger
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Roger Clough  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Platonist Guitar Cowboy
>>>
>>> I always let the market decide.
>>>
>>>
>>> Please. It's peoples' behavior that determines market. And it has
>>> decided: you can steal from the coming generations by allowing energy
>>> industry to continue stealing from you or you can work to lower long term
>>> costs for your friends and family, the people you live with, local
>>> interests and community, energy independence and profit in long term.
>>>
>>> But sure, go ahead, think that gas and utilities prices will keep
>>> falling as dramatically as they have.
>>>
>>> ?
>>> You can't go wrong that way.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I doubt Leibniz would agree. Harnessing energy all around us instead of
>>> burning, drilling etc. is the least materialistic prospect for now,
>>> concerning energy.
>>>
>>> Additionally, both Jesus and numbers of straight market economics over
>>> the long run, and if you're smart even in short to mid term (I know people
>>> who are making profit TODAY by mixing their energy needs with contributing
>>> energy themselves; the moment you can afford to do this, it makes sense
>>> from any economic point of view), do not cohere with your infallibility
>>> derived from market + short-term perspective. Also, you could consider
>>> dealing the most harmful, addictive drugs and/or get into organized crime:
>>>
>>> the market has decided these to be very lucrative. But drop the Jesus
>>> and God talk for now on, because your usage and relationship to personal
>>> theology seems pretty clear now. Thanks for sharing.
>>>
>>> PGC
>>> --------------
>>>
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
>>> 1/13/2013
>>>
>>> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
>>>
>>> ----- Receiving the following content -----
>>> From: Platonist Guitar Cowboy
>>> Receiver: everything-list
>>> Time: 2013-01-12, 11:06:43
>>> Subject: Re: The unpredictability of solar energy
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Roger,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Roger Clough ?rote:
>>>
>>> The unpredictability of solar energy
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> I've lost the page ref for the graph below, but it's typical
>>> of numerous other graphs of the daily variation in solar energy on the
>>> internet.
>>> (For a comparison see solar variations on
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.bigindianabass.com/big_indiana_bass/2010/01/yearly-water-temps-precip-and-solar-energy.html
>>> ?)
>>> ?
>>>
>>> The hourly variation would be much worse, since the sun does not shine
>>> at night.
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> The variation from day to day is unpredicatable and enormous,
>>>
>>> going from?ear 0 Ly to almost 100 Ly. This is probably due to variable
>>>
>>> cloud cover, not auto exhaust emissions.
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> I'll stay with conventional electric power, thank you very much.
>>>
>>> ?
>>> ?
>>>
>>> ?
>>> ?
>>>
>>> Ly. Langley, a measurement of solar energy. One langley is equal to one
>>> gram-calorie per square centimeter.
>>> A gram-calorie is the amount of heat required to raise the temperature
>>> of one gram of water one degree Celsius.
>>>
>>> ?
>>> ?
>>>
>>>
>>> Good for you but perhaps bad for your wallet in long term. In Germany,
>>> many are starting to see that independence from fossil fuel monopolies is
>>> not just ideological... it turns citizens into energy traders instead of
>>> big oil slaves.
>>>
>>> See:
>>>
>>>
>>> In Germany, where sensible federal rules have fast-tracked and
>>> streamlined the permit process, the costs are considerably lower. It can
>>> take as little as eight days to license and install a solar system on a
>>> house in Germany. In the United States, depending on your state, the
>>> average ranges from 120 to 180 days. More than one million Germans have
>>> installed solar panels on their roofs. Australia also has a streamlined
>>> permitting process and has solar panels on 10 percent of its homes. Solar
>>> photovoltaic power would give America the potential to challenge the
>>> utility monopolies, democratize energy generation and transform millions of
>>> homes and small businesses into energy generators. Rational, market-based
>>> rules could turn every American into an energy entrepreneur. That
>>> transition to renewable power could create millions of domestic jobs and
>>> power in this country with American resourcefulness, initiative and
>>> entrepreneurial energy while taking a substantial bite out of the nation?
>>> emissions of greenhouse gases and other dangerous pollutants.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/13/opinion/solar-panels-for-every-home.html?_r=0
>>>
>>> It's really not an ideological green vs. conservative matter. People
>>> just don't like being stolen from.
>>>
>>> The energy monopolies "thank YOUR wallet very much", as for solar panel
>>> users, we don't care if people have ideological axes to grind for which
>>> they want to pay, instead of trading themselves with that little patch of
>>> sunshine that everybody owns.
>>>
>>> For most I know, it's not an either/or thing anyway; everybody just
>>> wants to transition to energy that costs less in long term and that brings
>>> cash into the household, instead of burning it.
>>>
>>> To not give the wrong impression: these moves make politics more complex
>>> and we have huge problems facing us with renewable energy in terms of
>>> costly infrastructure and higher electricity bills in short to midterm,
>>> which this entails. But we can still opt for companies with fossil fuel
>>> based cheaper energy.
>>>
>>> And if people are starting to make money in sunny Germany where
>>> everybody goes for abundant sunshine and beaches, then for many parts of
>>> the US this would mean...
>>> PGC
>>>
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ?
>>> ?
>>> ?
>>> ?
>>> ?
>>> ?
>>> ?
>>> ?
>>> ?
>>>
>>> ?
>>> [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
>>> 1/12/2013
>>> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Alberto.
>>
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-- 
Alberto.

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