On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, February 7, 2013 7:12:08 AM UTC-5, stathisp wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 4:01 AM, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> That's just because the simulation of a person isn't good enough. The
>> >> question is what if the simulation *is* good enough to completely fool
>> >> you.
>> >
>> >
>> > Fooling me is meaningless. "I think that you think therefore you are"
>> > fails
>> > to account for the subjective thinker in the first place. If someone
>> > kills
>> > you, but they then find a nifty way to use your cadaver as a
>> > ventriloquist's
>> > dummy, does it matter if it fools someone into thinking that you are
>> > still
>> > alive?
>> You have said that you can just "sense" the consciousness of other
>> minds but you have contradicted that, or at least admitted that the
>> "sensing" faculty can be fooled.
> An individual's sense can be fooled, but not necessarily fooled forever, and
> not everyone can be fooled. That doesn't mean that when we look at a beercan
> in the trash we can't tell that it doesn't literally feel crushed and
> abandoned.
>> If you have no sure test for
>> consciousness that means you might see it where it isn't present or
>> miss it where it is present. So your friend might be unconscious
>> despite your feeling that he is,
> Of course. People have been buried alive because the undertaker was fooled.
>> and your computer might be conscious
>> despite your feeling that it is not.
> Except my feeling is backed up with my knowledge of what it is - a human
> artifact designed to mimic certain mental functions. That knowledge should
> augment my personal intuition, as well as social and cultural reinforcements
> that indeed there is no reason to suspect that this map of mind is sentient
> territory.

You're avoiding the question. What is your definitive test for
consciousness? If you don't have one, then you have to admit that your
friend (who talks to you and behaves like people do, not in a coma,
not on a video recording, not dead in the morgue) may not be conscious
and your computer may be conscious. You talk with authority on what
can and can't have consciousness but it seems you don't have even an
operational definition of the word. I am not asking for an explanation
or theory of consciousness, just for a test to indicate its presence,
which is a much weaker requirement.

Stathis Papaioannou

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