On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> You're avoiding the question. What is your definitive test for >> consciousness? If you don't have one, then you have to admit that your >> friend (who talks to you and behaves like people do, not in a coma, >> not on a video recording, not dead in the morgue) may not be conscious >> and your computer may be conscious. > > > No, you are avoiding my answer. What is your definitive test for your own > consciousness? The test for my own consciousness is that I feel I am conscious. That is not at issue. At issue is the test for *other* entities' consciousness. You are convinced that computers and other machines don't have consciousness, but you can't say what test you will apply to them and see them fail. > My point is that sense is broader, deeper, and more primitive than our > cognitive ability to examine it, since cognitive qualities are only the tip > of the iceberg of sense. To test is to circumvent direct sense in favor of > indirect sense - which is a good thing, but it is by definition not > applicable to consciousness itself in any way. There is no test to tell if > you are conscious, because none is required. If you need to ask if you are > conscious, then you are probably having a lucid dream or in some phase of > shock. In those cases, no test will help you as you can dream a test result > as easily as you can experience one while awake. > > The only test for consciousness is the test of time. If you are fooled by > some inanimate object, eventually you will probably see through it or > outgrow the fantasy. So if, in future, robots live among us for years and are accepted by most people as conscious, does that mean they are conscious? This is essentially a form of the Turing test. >> You talk with authority on what >> can and can't have consciousness but it seems you don't have even an >> operational definition of the word. > > > Consciousness is what defines, not what can be defined. > >> I am not asking for an explanation >> or theory of consciousness, just for a test to indicate its presence, >> which is a much weaker requirement. > > > That is too much to ask, since all tests supervene upon the consciousness to > evaluate results. It's the case for any test that you will use your consciousness to evaluate the results. -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.