Brent: *"...I don't think consciousness is an all-or-nothing property.."*
In that unnerving struggle of 2 decades to 'generalize' (some of) those zillion positions the diverse authors exuded about Ccness (to fit THEIR own theories - whatever they thought it was) I concluded that what most people have in mind for Ccness is a - *P R O C E S S - *. This is why I ended up with *RESPONSE *in my identification. Not "property". Not "a thing". Not "a quale". So I don't go with your question: 'Ccness of what?' "about" maybe. I accept your position as SUCH, especially if you restrict your image to "human-like Ccness". The anthropocentric view is a cut-out and a specialty. The term Ccness - IMO - is an artifact to speak about. If I follow the 'response to relations' explanation, the word would be rather 'existence', 'infinite complexity', maybe: 'life' or even 'totality' (The World Entirety) - in a fashion whatever we have in our own mini-solipsism about the world we live in. Or: I put down my weapons and stop using it at all, accepting YOUR (or others') version of a human (animal?) treat based on awareness etc. as used in tons of literature. As I said many times: I am agnostic, not a fighter. John M On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 7:53 PM, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: > On 5/27/2013 2:18 PM, John Mikes wrote: > > Bruno: > do you indeed exclude the "other" animals from being selfconcious? or - > having a logic on their own level? Or any other trait we assign (identify?) > for humans - in our terms? > > A question about plants (rather: about being conscious): > you may feel free to define 'being conscious' in human terms, or mammal > (etc.) terms, but the "response" plants exude to information > (circumstances, impact. etc.) shows reactivity we may appropriate to us > humans. > > So do not deny consciousness from fellow DNA-bearing plants. > > How about the DNA-not-bearing other creatures? (crystals, stones, water, > impact you may call energy, - whatever?) > Anthropocentric? zoocentric? phitocentric? what-CENTRIC? > > > I don't think consciousness is an all-or-nothing property. You have to > ask "Consciousness of what?" There's consciousness of surroundings: sound, > photons, temperature, chemical concentrations.... There's consciousness of > internal states. Consciousness of sex. Consciousness of one's location. > Consciousness of one's status in a tribe. I think human-like consciousness > requires language of some kind. > > Brent > > > > > JM > > On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> On 26 May 2013, at 13:29, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: >> >> "The absence of a neocortex does not appear to preclude an organism from >>> experiencing affective states. Convergent evidence indicates that non-human >>> animals have the neuroanatomical, neurochemical, and neurophysiological >>> substrates of conscious states along with the capacity to exhibit >>> intentional behaviors. Consequently, the weight of evidence indicates that >>> humans are not unique in possessing the neurological substrates that >>> generate consciousness. Non-human animals, including all mammals and birds, >>> and many other creatures, including octopuses, also possess these >>> neurological substrates." >>> >>> http://fcmconference.org/img/CambridgeDeclarationOnConsciousness.pdf >>> >> >> Always a pleasure, if not some relief, to hear that. >> >> My opinion, for what is worth, is that all animals are conscious, and the >> one described above are already self-conscious, and "potentially Löbian" >> (meaning: like you, me, and Peano Arithmetic). >> >> Are plants conscious? I don't know. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
