Russell wrote: *"...When it comes to Bp & p capturing the notion of knowledge, I can see it captures the notion of mathematical knowledge, ie true theorems, as opposed to true conjectures, say, which aren't knowledge. But I am vaguely sceptical it captures the notion of scientific knowledge, which has more to do with falsifiability, than with proof. And that's about where I left it - years ago.* *..."* Interesting difference between 'scientific' and 'mathematical' (see the Nobel Prize distinction) - also in falsifiability, that does not automatically escape the agnostic questioning about the circumstances of the falsifying and the original images. Same difficulty as in judging "proof". "Scientific knowledge" indeed is part of a belief system. In conventional sciences we THINK we know, in math we assume (apologies, Bruno). John M * * On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 6:43 PM, Russell Standish <li...@hpcoders.com.au>wrote:

> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 12:04:13PM -0700, meekerdb wrote: > > You mean unprovable? I get confused because it seems that you > > sometimes use Bp to mean "proves p" and sometimes "believes p" > > > > To a mathematician, belief and proof are the same thing. I believe in > this theorem because I can prove it. If I can't prove it, then I don't > believe it - it is merely a conjecture. > > In modal logic, the operator B captures both proof and supposedly > belief. Obviously it captures a mathematician's notion of belief - > whether that extends to a scientists notion of belief, or a > Christian's notion is another matter entirely. > > When it comes to Bp & p capturing the notion of knowledge, I can see > it captures the notion of mathematical knowledge, ie true theorems, as > opposed to true conjectures, say, which aren't knowledge. > > But I am vaguely sceptical it captures the notion of scientific > knowledge, which has more to do with falsifiability, than with proof. > > And that's about where I left it - years ago. > > Cheers > > -- > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) > Principal, High Performance Coders > Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au > University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.