Materialism is no joke. Like Dr. Johnson said, I refute it this! What mathematician (Texas) Martin Gardner, once, wrote, is that he like string theory, because behind matter is energy, and behind energy, are strings, and behind strings, and behind numbers, are nothing. This, influenced Gardner's own theology (I never heard it from anyone else) which he called Fidism, or loyalty to the creator. Gardner mused, that if He could think up the numbers once, he could again. I guess Mr. Gardner must have liked this notion? It's a bit like The Book of Nothing, but one of the Everything List's, august, members, Professor, Stannard, jazzed up with a dash of theology. Some people like their math straight up, on the rocks, while others use a twist of theology. I may not be a cosmologist, but I know my mixology.
Mitch -----Original Message----- From: Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> To: everything-list <[email protected]> Sent: Wed, Jun 5, 2013 1:10 am Subject: Re: Materialism is a joke On 05 Jun 2013, at 01:33, chris peck wrote: >> This is a "theorem", once we suppose the mind is Turing emulable. not actually a theorem if we don't, tho' ? i don't understand. More to the point, it might well be that materialism IS a joke. But Roger's attempt to show this is no closer to the mark than Dr. Johnson kicking his stone was to disproving idealism. OK. And Roger is still a weak materialist, which I often call simply a materialist: that is someone assuming some physics or some primitive matter. But if we are machine, the physical is emergent from + and * in the natural numbers. See my URL for the argument/proof. It doesn't follow from the fact that materialists believe only physical things exist that they also think all existence is objective. That is at best a straw man at worst a non-sequiteur. By and large materialists attempt to explain mentality in terms of physical things, not deny that there is mentality. So to point to mentality and say 'there you go, proven materialism false' misses the point big time. Absolutely. See my papers if you want understand why weak materialism is incompatible with mechanism. Bruno > Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 13:54:05 +0200 > Subject: Re: Materialism is a joke > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > > On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 04 Jun 2013, at 01:20, Roger Clough wrote: > > > > Materialism is a joke > > > > Materialism is a view of the universe that claims that the only > > existence in the universe is physical or objective existence--that only > > objects moving in spacetime exist. Which is disproven by the > > fact that if you understand that definition, you've proven that > > there is something beyond objective existence -- subjective or > > mental existence > > > > > > Even weak materialism is a joke, Roger. This is a "theorem", once we suppose > > the mind is Turing emulable. > > This makes materialism (the non weak one) even more of a joke. > > Is there a possible scenario where the mind is not Turing emulable and > materialism holds? > > Telmo. > > > Bruno > > > > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Everything List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [email protected]. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
