So numbers do not exist?
On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: > > On 10 Jun 2013, at 18:25, meekerdb wrote: > > On 6/10/2013 12:19 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 2:40 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> On 09 Jun 2013, at 11:20, Telmo Menezes wrote: >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 9:23 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 08 Jun 2013, at 17:55, meekerdb wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On 6/8/2013 1:02 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 08 Jun 2013, at 05:15, meekerdb wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On 6/7/2013 4:00 PM, Stephen Paul King wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, if there was a text of this it would be nice... I found this: >>>>>> http://plato.stanford.edu/**entries/fictionalism-**mathematics/<http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/fictionalism-mathematics/> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> A fictionalist account holds that some things are fictional, i.e. >>>>>> don't >>>>>> exist even though their complete description is self-consistent. >>>>>> Everythingists apparently reject this idea. Platonists seem to equate >>>>>> 'true' with 'exists'. If you believe 17 is prime you must believe 17 >>>>>> exists. I think this is wrong. If you believe that a flying pink >>>>>> elephant >>>>>> is pink, must you believe a flying pink elephant exists? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Flying pink elephants are pink and not pink. That's why flying pink >>>>>> elephant >>>>>> can't exist. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> A pink elephant is pink by construction. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Exact. But the flying pink elephant are also not pink. By logic. Or >>>>>> show >>>>>> me >>>>>> a flying pink elephant living on this planet which isn't not pink. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Bruno, how are flying pink elephants any different from things that I >>>>> remember but am not experiencing this very moment? >>>>> >>>> >>>> I add explanation. Here you describe two 1p events. They are similar, >>>> although I guess you don't have precise memory of having actually seen a >>>> Flying Pink Elephant in your life, except in cartoon or dreams. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> For example, I've >>>>> been to Brussels but I'm not there right now. Brussels is an >>>>> abstraction in my mind, but I believe it's the capital of Belgium. >>>>> That's part of the Brussels abstraction, in the same sense that being >>>>> pink is part of the flying pink elephant abstraction. No? >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I do not dispute that fact. Pink elephant are pink. >>>> >>>> But the pink elephant on this planet happens also to be brown rampant >>>> worms. >>>> And I'm afraid that is only a classical logician's joke. >>>> >>>> (x = Flying Pink Elephant) -> (x = Brown Rampant Worms) is true on this >>>> planet because (x = Flying Pink Elephant) is false for all x, on this >>>> planet >>>> (I think), >>>> >>> >> >> But (x = Flying Pink Elephant) is false for all x, is an empirical >> proposition. >> > > I agree. > > > > > > Not one you can prove from arithmetic or logic. But the point was that >> true propositions, like "Flying pink elephants are pink" don't imply the >> existence of anything; just like "17 is prime" doesn't imply the existence >> of 17. >> > > But how do you formalize "flying pink elephant are pink" ? > > I am simpled minded, so I formalized it in a first order logical formula: > > if x is an elephant which is pink and which is flying then x is pink. > > This does not entail Ex( x = an elephant which is pink and which is flying) > > For the same reason that: > > "if x is a prime number, which is even, and bigger that 3" then x is > bigger than 3" > > does not entail Ex(x = even prime number bigger than 3). > > Bruno > > > > > > > >> Brent >> >> >> and in classical logic f implies everything. >>>> >>>> If you want, >>>> >>>> "(x = Flying Pink Elephant) -> (x = Brown Rampant Worms)" is an >>>> expression equivalent >>>> >>>> to "f -> <whatever>" which is a tautology. It is the way to >>>> diplomatically >>>> assert that we do not believe in the existence of some x which would be >>>> equal to a flying pig elephant. The popular saying "with "ifs" and >>>> "buts" >>>> you can put Paris in a bottle express a similar thing. >>>> >>> Ok, I'm convinced. >>> >>> Telmo. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to >> everything-list+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com<everything-list%[email protected]> >> . >> >> To post to this group, send email to >> everything-list@googlegroups.**com<[email protected]> >> . >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >> group/everything-list?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en> >> . >> For more options, visit >> https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out> >> . >> >> >> > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~**marchal/ <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/> > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/** > topic/everything-list/_**ONFIcyntY4/unsubscribe?hl=en<https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/_ONFIcyntY4/unsubscribe?hl=en> > . > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > everything-list+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com<everything-list%[email protected]> > . > To post to this group, send email to > everything-list@googlegroups.**com<[email protected]> > . > Visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/**group/everything-list?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en> > . > For more options, visit > https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out> > . > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
