In such a case where tci's are not indicated, and ssri's the same, the ancient 
but improved upon use of ECT needs to be considered-but only if it actually 
works.


-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net>
To: theoretical_physics <theoretical_phys...@yahoogroups.com>; 
theoretical_physics_board <theoretical_physics_bo...@yahoogroups.com>; - 
mindbr...@yahoogroups.com <mindbr...@yahoogroups.com>; everything-list 
<everything-list@googlegroups.com>; 4dworldx <4dwor...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 5, 2013 8:47 am
Subject: Fw: antidepressants and suicide



Sorry I forgot to put in the linK ;

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15699293


>Hi Chaotic Inflation  
> 
>There is indeed a positive association between TCAs and suicide,  
>(how strong it doesn't say) but otherwise there is a negative association.   
>I wouldn't be surprised  however, if there was a positive association for ALL 
antidepressants, 
>as they don't work perfectly anyway. From my experience,  
>I would say that they only reduce depression at best about 50%.  
> 
> 
>The relationship between antidepressant medication use and rate of suicide.  
> 
>Gibbons RD, Hur K, Bhaumik DK, Mann JJ.  
>Source  
> 
>Center for Health Statistics, University of Illinois at Chicago, USA.  
>RESULTS:  
> 
>The overall relationship between antidepressant medication prescription and 
suicide rate was not significant.  
>Within individual classes of antidepressants, prescriptions for selective 
serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs)  
>and other new-generation non-SSRI antidepressants (eg, nefazodone 
hydrochloride, mirtazapine, 
> bupropion hydrochloride, and venlafaxine hydrochloride) 
> are associated with lower suicide rates (both within and between counties). A 
positive association between  
>tricyclic antidepressant (TCA) prescription and suicide rate was observed. 
Results are adjusted for age, sex, race, income,  
>and county-to-county variability in suicide rates. Higher suicide rates in 
rural areas are associated with fewer antidepressant 
> prescriptions, lower income, and relatively more prescriptions for TCAs. 
> 
> 
> 
>Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000] 
> 
> 
>ee my Leibniz site at 
>http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough 
> 
> 
>----- Receiving the following content -----  
>From: Chaotic Inflation  
>Receiver: 
>4dwor...@yahoogroups.com,4dwor...@yahoogroups.com,theoretical_physics_bo...@yahoogroups.com,theoretical_phys...@yahoogroups.com
>  

>Time: 2013-08-05, 04:38:01  
>Subject: Re: Re: Re: [Theoretical_Physics] Re: 
>[4DWorldx]Fw:Re:Re:[Theoretical_Physics_Board] 
OK, but think about this  
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>dude you need to get off this obsession with liberals that you have and 
analyze the facts.... look up Prozac defense and homicide rate with SSRIs ..... 
also look up the Columbine incident and how that's linked to 
antidepressants..... and if this wasn't true, they wouldn't have had to shell 
out millions of dollars in class action lawsuits, and psychiatrists themselves 
are now railing against the widespread overuse of antidepressants...... this 
has 
nothing to do with politics.  
>>  
>>  
>>________________________________  
>> From: Roger Clough  
>>To: theoretical_physics ; 4dworldx <4dwor...@yahoogroups.com>; 
theoretical_physics_board  
>>Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 4:21 AM  
>>Subject: Re: Re: Re: [Theoretical_Physics] Re: [4DWorldx] 
>>Fw:Re:Re:[Theoretical_Physics_Board] 
OK, but think about this  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>Hi Chaotic Inflation  
>>  
>>I think those are typical liberal lies.  
>>  
>>  
>>Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]  
>>See my Leibniz site at  
>>http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough  
>>  
>>----- Receiving the following content -----  
>>From: Chaotic Inflation  
>>Receiver: 
>>theoretical_phys...@yahoogroups.com,4dwor...@yahoogroups.com,theoretical_physics_bo...@yahoogroups.com,theoretical_phys...@yahoogroups.com
>>  

>>Time: 2013-08-04, 00:33:01  
>>Subject: Re: Re: [Theoretical_Physics] Re: [4DWorldx] 
>>Fw:Re:Re:[Theoretical_Physics_Board] 
OK, but think about this  
>>  
>>>From what I've read some (prozac especially, but also others) cause violent 
tendencies in teenagers..... the side effects are vastly different in children 
with developing brains.  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>________________________________  
>>> From: Roger Clough  
>>>To: 4dworldx <4dwor...@yahoogroups.com>; theoretical_physics  
>>>Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2013 11:00 AM  
>>>Subject: Re: Re: [Theoretical_Physics] Re: [4DWorldx] Fw: 
Re:Re:[Theoretical_Physics_Board] OK, but think about this  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>Hi Chaotic Inflation  
>>>  
>>>Antidepressants are probably overprescribed, but they only help you if you 
are depressed,  
>>>otherwise I am told that they have no effect (they surely don't make you 
high), so why would anybody  
>>>keep paying even the copay ? My suspicion is that they are useful and so 
needed.  
>>>  
>>>Without God, it's a depressing world.  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]  
>>>See my Leibniz site at  
>>>http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>----- Receiving the following content -----  
>>>From: Chaotic Inflation  
>>>Receiver: 4dwor...@yahoogroups.com,theoretical_phys...@yahoogroups.com  
>>>Time: 2013-08-03, 03:49:37  
>>>Subject: Re: [Theoretical_Physics] Re: [4DWorldx] Fw: 
>>>Re:Re:[Theoretical_Physics_Board] 
OK, but think about this  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>>Obviously this isn't an all size all fits scenario, you have a serious 
condition, but they are way overprescribed, especially to children and those 
with only mild or moderate condition, which studies have shown respond much 
better to counseling and lifestyle changes and which alternatives dont have the 
serious side effects. Your condition clearly isn't mild or moderate and 
therefore you need them. The pharmaceutical industry, like with statins, has 
been trying to expand its market as much as possible, to people who dont need 
them instead of concentrating on the ones who really do- hence the television 
ads.  
>>>>  
>>>>________________________________  
>>>> From: Roger Clough  
>>>>To: 4dworldx <4dwor...@yahoogroups.com>; theoretical_physics_board ; 
theoretical_physics  
>>>>Sent: Friday, August 2, 2013 5:58 AM  
>>>>Subject: Re: [Theoretical_Physics] Re: [4DWorldx] Fw: Re: 
Re:[Theoretical_Physics_Board] OK, but think about this  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>Hi Chaotic Inflation  
>>>>  
>>>>I've been on anti-depressants for 30 years and would  
>>>>be dead without them.  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]  
>>>>See my Leibniz site at  
>>>>http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>----- Receiving the following content -----  
>>>>From: Chaotic Inflation  
>>>>Receiver: 
>>>>4dwor...@yahoogroups.com,4dwor...@yahoogroups.com,theoretical_physics_bo...@yahoogroups.com,theoretical_phys...@yahoogroups.com
>>>>  

>>>>Time: 2013-08-01, 21:29:12  
>>>>Subject: [Theoretical_Physics] Re: [4DWorldx] Fw: Re: 
>>>>Re:[Theoretical_Physics_Board] 
OK, but think about this  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>>Yes, the sad fact is that most psychotropic drugs dont cure anything but 
put people in a state of sluggishness that makes them not really care about 
anything.  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>________________________________  
>>>>> From: Anna  
>>>>>To: 4dwor...@yahoogroups.com; theoretical_physics_bo...@yahoogroups.com; 
theoretical_phys...@yahoogroups.com  
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 9:25 PM  
>>>>>Subject: Re: [4DWorldx] Fw: Re: Re: [Theoretical_Physics_Board] OK, but 
think about this  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>I tried once. Makes you very dull and uncreative.  
>>>>>Anna  
>>>>>  
>>>>>From: Chaotic Inflation  
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 7:23 PM  
>>>>>To: 4dwor...@yahoogroups.com ; theoretical_physics_bo...@yahoogroups.com ; 
theoretical_phys...@yahoogroups.com  
>>>>>Subject: [4DWorldx] Fw: Re: Re: [Theoretical_Physics_Board] OK, but  
>>>>>think about this  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>I agree, I think they have good intentions however the end result would be 
>>>>> 

>>>>>disastrous. Although not all have good intentions, some have argued that  
>>>>>introducing lithium would be a good way to ensure "compliance" and curb 
anti  
>>>>>authoritarian behavior  
>>>>>  
>>>>>________________________________  
>>>>> From: Roger Clough  
>>>>>To: theoretical_physics_board  
>>>>>  
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 5:45  
>>>>>AM  
>>>>>Subject: Re: Re: Re:  
>>>>>[Theoretical_Physics_Board] OK, but think about this  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>Hi Chaotic Inflation  
>>>>>  
>>>>>Lithium carbonate is a poison for most of us.  
>>>>>Even for those with  
>>>>>bipolar depression, it needs to be carefully monitored,  
>>>>>and they  
>>>>>can't be already taking it.  
>>>>>  
>>>>>Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.)  
>>>>>[1/1/2000]  
>>>>>See my Leibniz site  
>>>>>at  
>>>>>http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>----- Receiving the  
>>>>>following content -----  
>>>>>From: Chaotic Inflation  
>>>>>Receiver: mailto:Theoretical_Physics_Board%40yahoogroups.com  
>>>>>Time: 2013-08-01, 03:17:43  
>>>>>Subject: Re: Re: [Theoretical_Physics_Board]  
>>>>>OK, but think about this  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>>Probably lol- what's your  
>>>>>position on some psychiatrists' wanting lithium in the water supply 
>>>>>though?  

>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>________________________________  
>>>>>> From: Roger  
>>>>>Clough  
>>>>>>To: theoretical_physics_board  
>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, August 1,  
>>>>>2013 2:16 AM  
>>>>>>Subject: Re: Re: [Theoretical_Physics_Board] OK, but think  
>>>>>about this  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>Hi Chaotic Inflation  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>It won't make people happy, but putting contraceptives in the  
>>>>>drinking water should  
>>>>>>stop over-population.  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]  
>>>>>>See my Leibniz site at  
>>>>>>http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>----- Receiving the following content -----  
>>>>>>From: Chaotic  
>>>>>Inflation  
>>>>>>Receiver: mailto:Theoretical_Physics_Board%40yahoogroups.com  
>>>>>>Time: 2013-07-31, 21:26:42  
>>>>>>Subject: Re:  
>>>>>[Theoretical_Physics_Board] OK, but think about this  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>The problem is, what works in a petri dish is time limited-  
>>>>>those studies only go forward for a few months, while years down the line, 
>>>>> 

>>>>>things can be much different- and I contend this is exactly why we've seen 
much  
>>>>>higher rates of certain illnesses. Man, reading that story about Agent 
Orange  
>>>>>and the 200,000 kids born with birth defects really turned my stomach, and 
>>>>> 

>>>>>Monsanto had to shell out 230 million in a settlement and yet still denied 
>>>>> 

>>>>>responsibility? Evil endures. And now that glysophate has stopped working 
they  
>>>>>want to use it on crops- what?! Haha, expect that company to be blown out 
of  
>>>>>existence in the next few years. Dont think many tears will be shed.  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>________________________________  
>>>>>>> From: Allen Francom  
>>>>>>>To: "mailto:Theoretical_Physics_Board%40yahoogroups.com";  
>>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 9:22 PM  
>>>>>>>Subject: Re:  
>>>>>[Theoretical_Physics_Board] OK, but think about this  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>This is actually  
>>>>>a heck of a topic  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>Because... Malthusians "do the math",  
>>>>>right or wrong, they still do it...  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>What works in a  
>>>>>Petri-dish works for us too ?  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>Likely so  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>EXCEPT - we are good at inventing new corn and wheat, right or wrong  
>>>>>at that too,  
>>>>>>>we still feed more people than have seemingly ever even  
>>>>>existed in entire history.  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>Shoulder to the wheel  
>>>>>everyone  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>Reach for the stars  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>Or bust  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>________________________________  
>>>>>>> From: Chaotic  
>>>>>Inflation  
>>>>>>>To: "mailto:Theoretical_Physics_Board%40yahoogroups.com";  
>>>>>; "mailto:4dworldx%40yahoogroups.com";  
>>>>>;  
>>>>>"mailto:theoretical_physics_board%40yahoogroups.com";  
>>>>>; "mailto:theoretical_physics%40yahoogroups.com";  
>>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 12:02 AM  
>>>>>>>Subject: Re:  
>>>>>[Theoretical_Physics_Board] OK, but think about this  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>Nah, that's the wrong way to look at it,  
>>>>>humanity isn't being "controlled" it's just a fact of nature that this is 
what  
>>>>>happens when one species dominates a planet for too long- it has nothing 
>>>>>to 
do  
>>>>>with "hating" anyone, but recognizing how the planet keeps everything in  
>>>>>balance- for the benefit of the entire planet, rather than just one 
species. In  
>>>>>the long run it benefits everyone, including humans.  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>________________________________  
>>>>>>> From: Stephen P. King  
>>>>>>>To: mailto:Theoretical_Physics_Board%40yahoogroups.com  
>>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 12:21 AM  
>>>>>>>Subject: Re:  
>>>>>[Theoretical_Physics_Board] OK, but think about this  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>Is humanity a blight to be controlled? If  
>>>>>so, we should we worry about shoving the throttle to full speed ahead and 
get  
>>>>>the blight over with forthwith? Nature seems to manage to take care of 
things  
>>>>>quite well w/o us... The inconsistency of the "Humanity Haters" confuses 
me,  
>>>>>sorry...  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>On  
>>>>>7/30/2013 10:18 PM, Chaotic Inflation wrote:  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>The ice  
>>>>>ages actually performed a very necessary function if this is true- by 
reducing  
>>>>>the human population- thus preventing a much greater disaster. I think we 
are  
>>>>>overdue for one of these cataclysmic events and another reduction of the 
human  
>>>>>population.  
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>Either way, we'll  
>>>>>be off of primitive fossil fuels long before any of this comes to pass- a 
couple  
>>>>>hundred years is a drop in the bucket on all scales but the limited 
lifespans of  
>>>>>human beings.  
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>--  
>>>>>>>Onward!  
>>>>>Stephen  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>  
>> 
> 
> 
> 
>Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000] 
>See my Leibniz site at 
>http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough 
>

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