On 9/17/2013 1:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:


On 16 Sep 2013, at 19:54, meekerdb wrote:

On 9/16/2013 5:35 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
With computationalism, it is more easy and clear. What exists, at the ontological level, is what make true a sentence like "ExP(x)". So number exists, once we assume arithmetic or combinators ..., because they make true Ex(x = x).

But this notion of 'exists' as 'satisfying a propositional function' is completely different from "kicks back when I kick it" existence.

Why? It kicks back too, like in credit carts.

My credit card is made of plastic - and all the processes that depend on it's number are realized in stuff that kicks back too.

And with comp it kicks back in making you dreaming of things kicking back, sometimes in persistent way.



You say "number exists, once we assume arithmetic"; which is about as useful as "hobbits exist once we assume middle Earth".

Not at all. Arithmetic asks for very few rather clear assumptions, and it explains a lot, as all physical theories assumes it.

Arithmetic is a model of countable objects, but it's not that clear that "every number has a successor" correctly models countable objects.

Then with comp we need, nor can use anything more. Hobbits and middle Earth assumes many things and explain nothing. I suspect you are a little bit disingenuous, isn't it?

I naturally took an extreme example to make my point.

Brent


Bruno



http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/%7Emarchal/>



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