# Re: Unexpected Hanging

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On 17 Sep 2013, at 19:11, meekerdb wrote:```
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```On 9/17/2013 1:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
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On 16 Sep 2013, at 19:54, meekerdb wrote:

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```On 9/16/2013 5:35 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
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With computationalism, it is more easy and clear. What exists, at the ontological level, is what make true a sentence like "ExP(x)". So number exists, once we assume arithmetic or combinators ..., because they make true Ex(x = x).
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But this notion of 'exists' as 'satisfying a propositional function' is completely different from "kicks back when I kick it" existence.
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Why? It kicks back too, like in credit carts.
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My credit card is made of plastic - and all the processes that depend on it's number are realized in stuff that kicks back too.
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But that will do in the relevant way thanks to the abstract truth that factorizing large number takes time. The plastic of the card plays only a role of support.
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And with comp it kicks back in making you dreaming of things kicking back, sometimes in persistent way.
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You say "number exists, once we assume arithmetic"; which is about as useful as "hobbits exist once we assume middle Earth".
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Not at all. Arithmetic asks for very few rather clear assumptions, and it explains a lot, as all physical theories assumes it.
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Arithmetic is a model of countable objects, but it's not that clear that "every number has a successor" correctly models countable objects.
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Then with comp we need, nor can use anything more. Hobbits and middle Earth assumes many things and explain nothing. I suspect you are a little bit disingenuous, isn't it?
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I naturally took an extreme example to make my point.
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I do that often too, but here it weakened your point. Everyone (except Sunday philosopher) agree on 0, and its successor. That is typically not the case for Hobbits and Middle Earth.
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Bruno

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Brent

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Bruno

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/

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