On Friday, October 4, 2013 4:10:02 AM UTC+10, Craig Weinberg wrote:
> On Thursday, October 3, 2013 9:30:13 AM UTC-4, telmo_menezes wrote:
>> On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 6:10 PM, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com> 
>> wrote: 
>> > 
>> > I think that evil continues to flourish, precisely because science has 
>> not 
>> > integrated privacy into an authoritative worldview. As long as 
>> subjectivity 
>> > remains the primary concern of most ordinary people, any view that 
>> denies or 
>> > diminishes it will be held at arms length. I think it secretly erodes 
>> > support for all forms of progress and inspires fundamentalist politics 
>> as 
>> > well. 
>> I agree. Taking privacy literally, this is in fact one of the most 
>> creepy consequences of total surveillance: denial of privacy is, in a 
>> sense, a denial of the right to existence. Can one truly exist as a 
>> human being as an undistinguishable part of some mass? No secrets, no 
>> mysteries, what you see is what you get to the extreme. This sounds 
>> like hell. 
> Right. I think that it is no coincidence that the major concerns of 
> ubiquitous computing revolve around privacy, propreity, and security. 
> Computers don't know what privacy is, they don't know who we are, and they 
> can't care who owns what. That's all part of private physics and computers 
> can only exploit the lowest common denominator of privacy  - that level 
> which refers only to itself as a digitally quantified object.
>> > Once we have a worldview which makes sense of all phenomena and 
>> > experience, even the mystical and personal, then we can move forward in 
>> a 
>> > more mature and sensible way. Right now, what is being offered is 'you 
>> can 
>> > know the truth about the universe, but only if you agree that you 
>> aren't 
>> > really part of it'. 
>> I believe more than this is being offered in this mailing list. I feel 
>> your objections apply mostly to mainstream views, and to that degree I 
>> agree with you. 
> I agree, I wasn't really talking about specialized groups like this.
>> > 
>> > Why would MWI or evolution place a high value on leadership or success? 
>> It 
>> > seems just the opposite. What difference does it make if you succeed 
>> here 
>> > and now, if you implicitly fail elsewhere? MWI doesn't seem to describe 
>> any 
>> > universe that could ever matter to anyone. It's the Occam's catastrophe 
>> > factor. 
>> Highly speculative and non-rigorous: 
>> You can see it differently if you can assume self-sampling. Let's 
>> assume everything is conscious, even rocks. A rock is so simple that, 
>> for it, a millennia probably feels like a second. It does not contain 
>> a variety of conscious states like humans do. Then, you would expect 
>> to find yourself as a complex being. Certain branches of the 
>> multiverse contain such complex beings, and this would make evolution 
>> appear more effective/purposeful than it really is, from the vantage 
>> point of these branches. 
> Even so, why would uniqueness or firstness be of value in a universe based 
> on such immense and inescapable redundancy as MWI suggests?
The universe doesn't seem to be too fussed about immense and inescapable 
redundancy. Have you noticed all the *space* out there?? The progress of 
scientific knowledge has proceeded so far in the same direction: the 
revelation of a context ever vaster and more impersonal. MWI does strike me 
as quite horrifying too. But that is based on a false perspective in which 
one imagine occupying all the branches of the universe and feels naturally 
appalled. But nobody experiences the multiverse as such thank god. As for 
what has value, again that is a matter for the first person perspective, 
the limited horizon of thoughts and feelings of the individual. From the 
god's eye view, any individual entity is utterly insignificant. You can't 
look to a cosmological theory for validation of personal significance. 
You're posing the same argument against MWI as Christians posed against 
Darwinism and before that the Copernican revolution. "What is *my*significance 
in this picture of the world?" Well sorry bud, but the news 
ain't good...

>> >> >> 
>> >> >> > Thanks, 
>> >> >> > Craig 
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> >> 
>> >> >> >> 
>> >> >> >> Cheers, 
>> >> >> >> Telmo. 

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