To add to my last comment, the article at
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/leibniz-modal/ mentions that Leibniz was
among those philosophers who distinguished between necessary and contingent
truths, and only granted God the power to change contingent ones. Here's a
relevant bit from the article:
Consider the way Leibniz distinguishes necessary and contingent truths in
§13 of the *Discourse on Metaphysics*.
The one whose contrary implies a contradiction is absolutely necessary;
this deduction occurs in the eternal truths, for example, the truths of
geometry. The other is necessary only *ex hypothesi* and, so to speak,
accidentally, but it is contingent in itself, since its contrary does not
imply a contradiction. And this connection is based not purely on ideas and
God's simple understanding, but on his free decrees and on the sequence of
the universe. (A VI iv 1547/AG 45)
So, what's wrong with adopting Tegmark's solution which takes our universe
as a Platonic mathematical structure, so that all truths about it are
necessary ones too? Then there would be no need for a creator God, though
one might still talk about a sort of Spinoza-esque pantheist God
(especially if one also prefers panpsychism as a solution to the
metaphysical problem of the relation between consciousness and third-person
On Sunday, December 1, 2013, Jesse Mazer wrote:
> Most theistic philosophers and theologians who have considered the issue
> agree that God did not create the laws of math and logic, and does not have
> the power to alter them (or any other "necessary" truths, which for theists
> might include things like moral rules, or qualities of God such as
> omnipotence). Do you think the Mandelbrot set, or any other piece of pure
> mathematics, functions without a government, or are mathematical rules
> themselves a form of government even if God didn't create them? Certainly
> most atheists now think the universe follows mathematical laws, and one
> could even adopt Max Tegmark's idea and speculate that our universe is just
> another part of the uncreated Platonic realm of mathematical forms.
> On Sunday, December 1, 2013, Roger Clough wrote:
>> How can a grown man be an atheist ?
>> An atheist is a person who believes that the universe can
>> function without some form of government.
>> How silly.
>> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
>> See my Leibniz site at
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