Of course, tolerance is better than nothing. But most implementations still
ignore MPI (Merchant Person Indeterminacy), and so even in environments
where possession is tolerated, anybody engaging in a commercial transaction
or anybody on the production side is still fair game... which you can
interpret as still anybody, users included technically when some
transaction is "proven".

This kind of law allows more fuzzy, inconsistent application, in that no
quality control is established, no user knows what they're getting at which
potency, and leaves the authorities and legal system a completely free hand
in determining whether some street user just went "commercial" by sharing
or purchasing, and whether some charge against somebody who paid off local
authorities is just "a user possessing, financing his habit".

Netherlands still forbids commercial growing with its tolerance policy, so
what ends up in the legendary coffee shops is still legally "magical", and
with the total amount limits for coffee shop premisses set very low, in
practice they can just raid anybody they like (there were times and regions
where this was taken seriously and you actually had the bar owner have to
"jump across the street to somewhere over the rainbow of legal lands" to
refresh stock every hour or so).

So they have raids at times and find "surprise: this shop is over the legal
limit allowed on premises, going to have to pull the license". And since
they are not issuing new licenses for coffee shops, with a string of
conservative governments in the last years, it's noteworthy how some groups
seem very immune to raids while others do not.

Basically they obviously raid whoever is being "too criminal" in practice.
In short: Fuzzy laws just make things more complex through MPI :-)
Basically "we do what we want, we don't even have to be consistent anymore."

Hope the US and Uruguay take this into more consideration. Seizures of 6-7
figure amounts of cash and product, do represent conflict of interest, for
first officers on the scene, before they've been counted. Officers have
bills to pay too and lack of seizure oversight is a huge blind spot for
corrupting government officials. PGC


On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
> >
> > On 13 Dec 2013, at 00:51, LizR wrote:
> >
> > On 13 December 2013 07:04, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On 12 Dec 2013, at 18:31, meekerdb wrote:
> >>
> >> Is it true that you're transferring to the University of Uruguay, Bruno?
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes, but not exactly. Apparently I will be triplicated in Washington,
> >> Colorado, *and* Uruguay.
> >
> >
> > And Amsterdam?
> >
> >
> > I will be read and annihilated in Amsterdam.
> >
> > :)
> >
> > But note that in Amsterdam, cannabis is illegal, completely illegal. It
> is
> > just tolerated and decriminalized.
> > And that's bad, because it makes the coffee-shop owners sill in relation
> > with the criminals. It does not solve the root problem. They do
> progress, as
> > they allow more farmers to grow it, but only exceptionally, and still
> under
> > tolerance, not law.
> >
> > I am not sure for Portugal, perhaps Telmo know better. I think they
> tolerate
> > all drugs, but don't have the full legalization,
>
> (sorry I pressed some key by mistake and it sent the incomplete email)
>
> In Portugal drug use is fully decriminalized, as well as possession of
> small quantities. This applies to all drugs, even heroin and so on. In
> fact, you can go to a pharmacy and ask for syringes. Selling is still
> a crime and people go to jail for it -- although Portugal is very
> lenient on crime overall -- it is unlikely that a person will go to
> jail for their first criminal offense, unless it's something really
> serious (murder or armed robbery).
>
> I agree with Bruno, it's not enough, but it already provides strong
> empirical evidence: after one decade of decreminalization, hard drug
> use is significantly reduced (heroin was a big problem before
> decreminalization).
>
> I remember the political debate around this, and the conservatives
> were arguing that Portugal would become a destination for drug
> tourism, and that drug use would be rampant and destroy society. None
> of that happened, and even the conservatives don't talk about it
> anymore -- drugs simply ceased to be a political topic at all.
>
> Here in Berlin some progress is being made too:
> http://www.dw.de/cannabis-cafes-could-set-up-shop-in-berlin/a-17089498
>
> We'll see.
>
> Telmo.
>
> >like in Uruguay (and in
> > Washington and in Colorado, except for the feds!).
> >
> > We are still a long way from the understanding that prohibition benefits
> > only to bandits and terrorists, and that its harms a lot individuals and
> the
> > whole society at all levels. Why? because it is the criminals who got the
> > power, simply. Probably after Kennedy assassination. The world is
> governed
> > by "Al Capone", and it will look like more and more a big Chicago (as it
> > arguably already seems to be).
> >
> > But Amsterdam and all cities in the Netherlands are very lovely, and it
> is
> > nice we can buy salvia and cannabis, medical or recreative, without much
> > trouble. Note that Uruguay violates an international decision(*). That is
> > good, and the time has come to doubt on the sanity of that international
> > decision. We should internationally condemn all form of drugs and food
> > prohibition, which is the most unhealthy thing possible to do. I think
> that
> > such arbitrary nonsense has been made possible by the mentality which
> > accepted the abandon of doing theology in the scientific (interrogative)
> > way.
> >
> > Science is not yet born again.  The Enlighten period was just a tiny
> > concession for the most exact sciences, not for the very spirit of
> science,
> > which allows *all* doubts, and encourage the critical mind in *all*
> > directions. All certainties, when made public, are a form of madness.
> >
> > Bruno
> >
> >
> > (*) The International Narcotics Control Board (INCB) said the
> legislation in
> > Uruguay contravenes the 1961 Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, to
> which
> > it said Uruguay is a party.
> >
> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/11/uruguay-marijuana-breaks-international-treaty
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
> >
> >
> >
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