On 13 Dec 2013, at 14:51, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote:
Of course, tolerance is better than nothing. But most
implementations still ignore MPI (Merchant Person Indeterminacy),
and so even in environments where possession is tolerated, anybody
engaging in a commercial transaction or anybody on the production
side is still fair game... which you can interpret as still anybody,
users included technically when some transaction is "proven".
This kind of law allows more fuzzy, inconsistent application, in
that no quality control is established, no user knows what they're
getting at which potency, and leaves the authorities and legal
system a completely free hand in determining whether some street
user just went "commercial" by sharing or purchasing, and whether
some charge against somebody who paid off local authorities is just
"a user possessing, financing his habit".
Netherlands still forbids commercial growing with its tolerance
policy, so what ends up in the legendary coffee shops is still
legally "magical", and with the total amount limits for coffee shop
premisses set very low, in practice they can just raid anybody they
like (there were times and regions where this was taken seriously
and you actually had the bar owner have to "jump across the street
to somewhere over the rainbow of legal lands" to refresh stock every
hour or so).
So they have raids at times and find "surprise: this shop is over
the legal limit allowed on premises, going to have to pull the
license". And since they are not issuing new licenses for coffee
shops, with a string of conservative governments in the last years,
it's noteworthy how some groups seem very immune to raids while
others do not.
Basically they obviously raid whoever is being "too criminal" in
practice. In short: Fuzzy laws just make things more complex through
MPI :-) Basically "we do what we want, we don't even have to be
consistent anymore."
Hope the US and Uruguay take this into more consideration. Seizures
of 6-7 figure amounts of cash and product, do represent conflict of
interest, for first officers on the scene, before they've been
counted. Officers have bills to pay too and lack of seizure
oversight is a huge blind spot for corrupting government officials.
PGC
Well said. Thanks. The conflicts of (money) interests are huge.
Prohibition leads to a grave black and grey money addiction.
Bruno
On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com
> wrote:
On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
wrote:
>
> On 13 Dec 2013, at 00:51, LizR wrote:
>
> On 13 December 2013 07:04, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 12 Dec 2013, at 18:31, meekerdb wrote:
>>
>> Is it true that you're transferring to the University of Uruguay,
Bruno?
>>
>>
>> Yes, but not exactly. Apparently I will be triplicated in
Washington,
>> Colorado, *and* Uruguay.
>
>
> And Amsterdam?
>
>
> I will be read and annihilated in Amsterdam.
>
> :)
>
> But note that in Amsterdam, cannabis is illegal, completely
illegal. It is
> just tolerated and decriminalized.
> And that's bad, because it makes the coffee-shop owners sill in
relation
> with the criminals. It does not solve the root problem. They do
progress, as
> they allow more farmers to grow it, but only exceptionally, and
still under
> tolerance, not law.
>
> I am not sure for Portugal, perhaps Telmo know better. I think
they tolerate
> all drugs, but don't have the full legalization,
(sorry I pressed some key by mistake and it sent the incomplete email)
In Portugal drug use is fully decriminalized, as well as possession of
small quantities. This applies to all drugs, even heroin and so on. In
fact, you can go to a pharmacy and ask for syringes. Selling is still
a crime and people go to jail for it -- although Portugal is very
lenient on crime overall -- it is unlikely that a person will go to
jail for their first criminal offense, unless it's something really
serious (murder or armed robbery).
I agree with Bruno, it's not enough, but it already provides strong
empirical evidence: after one decade of decreminalization, hard drug
use is significantly reduced (heroin was a big problem before
decreminalization).
I remember the political debate around this, and the conservatives
were arguing that Portugal would become a destination for drug
tourism, and that drug use would be rampant and destroy society. None
of that happened, and even the conservatives don't talk about it
anymore -- drugs simply ceased to be a political topic at all.
Here in Berlin some progress is being made too:
http://www.dw.de/cannabis-cafes-could-set-up-shop-in-berlin/a-17089498
We'll see.
Telmo.
>like in Uruguay (and in
> Washington and in Colorado, except for the feds!).
>
> We are still a long way from the understanding that prohibition
benefits
> only to bandits and terrorists, and that its harms a lot
individuals and the
> whole society at all levels. Why? because it is the criminals who
got the
> power, simply. Probably after Kennedy assassination. The world is
governed
> by "Al Capone", and it will look like more and more a big Chicago
(as it
> arguably already seems to be).
>
> But Amsterdam and all cities in the Netherlands are very lovely,
and it is
> nice we can buy salvia and cannabis, medical or recreative,
without much
> trouble. Note that Uruguay violates an international decision(*).
That is
> good, and the time has come to doubt on the sanity of that
international
> decision. We should internationally condemn all form of drugs and
food
> prohibition, which is the most unhealthy thing possible to do. I
think that
> such arbitrary nonsense has been made possible by the mentality
which
> accepted the abandon of doing theology in the scientific
(interrogative)
> way.
>
> Science is not yet born again. The Enlighten period was just a tiny
> concession for the most exact sciences, not for the very spirit of
science,
> which allows *all* doubts, and encourage the critical mind in *all*
> directions. All certainties, when made public, are a form of
madness.
>
> Bruno
>
>
> (*) The International Narcotics Control Board (INCB) said the
legislation in
> Uruguay contravenes the 1961 Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs,
to which
> it said Uruguay is a party.
>
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/11/uruguay-marijuana-breaks-international-treaty
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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