On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Edgar L. Owen <edgaro...@att.net> wrote:

> Bruno,
> Correct me if I'm wrong about where you are coming from in your basic
> approach.
> Bruno seems to believe that mathematicians discover a math that already
> exists in reality (as opposed to math being a human invention which is the
> alternative view). Thus he believes that reality itself is a mathematical
> structure which 'contains' in some sense all of the math that
> mathematicians have come up with, and no doubt much more to be discovered.
> Thus he believes that ANY correct mathematical theory can be validly
> applied to reality to generate true results, which he does with facility.
> However there are a number of problems with this theory. For one thing the
> edifice of human math is static, it just sits there waiting for humans to
> apply it to something, whereas the math that actually computes reality is
> active and continuously runs like software.

>From the perspective of the software traces existing in arithmetic, it
seems like it is "running".  It is known that no software can ever
determine the true hardware it runs on. Thus from the point-of-view of some
software running on a human laptop, or some software running in a platonic,
statically existing Turing machine, if it is the same software things look
the same.

You add nothing to the computation by "dematerializing" past states of the
machine in some effort to make it "active". A machine in which all states
continue to exist is no less of a computation than one in which past states

> There is, in my view, no evidence at all for any math in reality at all
> except for what is actually running and computing reality's current state.

Does your theory account for what runs these computations?

> Therefore most of human math is NOT going to be applicable to the math of
> reality. One can't just apply the results of any human math theory to
> reality and expect it accurately describe reality. Instead of trying to
>  applying Godel, Church, etc. etc. etc. to reality one has to actually look
> at the actual computations reality is executing and see what they tell US,
> as opposed to what mathematicians try to tell them. This is basic
> scientific method and is the correct approach.
> So my repeated point is that human math and reality math are different. Of
> course they share some fundamental logic. But human math is a structure
> that was first approximated from the math of reality, but then widely
> generalized and extended far beyond what reality math is actually computing
> in the process losing some of the actual essentials of reality math.
> For example all computations in reality math are finite with no infinities
> nor infinitesimals since reality is granular at its elemental level and
> nothing actual can be infinite. The human math number system is a
> generalized extension of reality's number system which is more subtle as
> there are no numbers that just keep going forever (pi) to greater and
> greater accuracies far greater than the scale of the universe. And there
> may well be no zeros in reality math, since we could expect reality math to
> compute only what actually exists.
> Basically reality math is a particular program running in reality that
> computes the current state of reality.

You really ought to read the UDA...

> All the other programs that don't actually run and whatever math or
> logical results they may be based upon have no relevance and cannot be
> blindly applied to reality math.

How can we be so sure those other programs don't run? Why do you suppose
they don't?

> Therefore let me respectfully suggest that Bruno needs to examine the
> actual math of reality that is actually computing reality, and use his
> mathematical skills to elucidate that,

He has.  He's even written the program that (possibly) computes reality.

> rather than automatically trying to apply the results of human math
> without examining whether they actually apply.
What other math can we use if not "human math"?


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