On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 9:46 AM, Edgar L. Owen <edgaro...@att.net> wrote:

> Jason,
>
> Thanks for the link....
>
>
You're welcome. :-)


> Only the computations that account for observable effects can be assumed
> to exist.
>

Given quantum mechanics, it appears there is a huge (perhaps infinite)
number of computations that must exist already, just to explain physical
observations to date.


>
> There is no evidence, or any reason to believe, for 'us' existing in other
> universes.
>

It is a consequence of many of our current theories: many-worlds, cosmic
inflation, string theory, arithmetical realism, mathematical realism, etc.


> That sounds like sci fi certainly a lot farther out than some are accusing
> me of being! :-)
>

It does!  But perhaps more surprisingly it is a direct consequence of even
very modest theories, such as arithmetical realism.

In any case, all of this should be more clear once you read the first 8
steps of the UDA.

Jason


>
> Edgar
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, December 25, 2013 3:35:02 PM UTC-5, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
>
>> Bruno,
>>
>> Correct me if I'm wrong about where you are coming from in your basic
>> approach.
>>
>> Bruno seems to believe that mathematicians discover a math that already
>> exists in reality (as opposed to math being a human invention which is the
>> alternative view). Thus he believes that reality itself is a mathematical
>> structure which 'contains' in some sense all of the math that
>> mathematicians have come up with, and no doubt much more to be discovered.
>> Thus he believes that ANY correct mathematical theory can be validly
>> applied to reality to generate true results, which he does with facility.
>>
>> However there are a number of problems with this theory. For one thing
>> the edifice of human math is static, it just sits there waiting for humans
>> to apply it to something, whereas the math that actually computes reality
>> is active and continuously runs like software. There is, in my view, no
>> evidence at all for any math in reality at all except for what is actually
>> running and computing reality's current state.
>>
>> Therefore most of human math is NOT going to be applicable to the math of
>> reality. One can't just apply the results of any human math theory to
>> reality and expect it accurately describe reality. Instead of trying to
>>  applying Godel, Church, etc. etc. etc. to reality one has to actually look
>> at the actual computations reality is executing and see what they tell US,
>> as opposed to what mathematicians try to tell them. This is basic
>> scientific method and is the correct approach.
>>
>> So my repeated point is that human math and reality math are different.
>> Of course they share some fundamental logic. But human math is a structure
>> that was first approximated from the math of reality, but then widely
>> generalized and extended far beyond what reality math is actually computing
>> in the process losing some of the actual essentials of reality math.
>>
>> For example all computations in reality math are finite with no
>> infinities nor infinitesimals since reality is granular at its elemental
>> level and nothing actual can be infinite. The human math number system is a
>> generalized extension of reality's number system which is more subtle as
>> there are no numbers that just keep going forever (pi) to greater and
>> greater accuracies far greater than the scale of the universe. And there
>> may well be no zeros in reality math, since we could expect reality math to
>> compute only what actually exists.
>>
>> Basically reality math is a particular program running in reality that
>> computes the current state of reality. All the other programs that don't
>> actually run and whatever math or logical results they may be based upon
>> have no relevance and cannot be blindly applied to reality math.
>>
>> Therefore let me respectfully suggest that Bruno needs to examine the
>> actual math of reality that is actually computing reality, and use his
>> mathematical skills to elucidate that, rather than automatically trying to
>> apply the results of human math without examining whether they actually
>> apply.
>>
>> Edgar
>>
>>
>>
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