Thank goodness, some sanity and clarity! 

Yes, you are correct and that is pretty much what I'm talking about. It's 
quite easy to understand really. There has to be something happening in 
Andromeda right now simultaneously with what's happening here on earth for 
cosmology to make sense. The fact that clock times cannot be 
instantaneously communicated between the two does not negate that. That 
common, though admittedly non-communicable, 'right now' is the shared 
universal present moment I keep talking about.

It's quite a simple straight forward and intuitive concept, nothing 
esoteric at all.... Basic common sense really.....

Thanks Brent, I should have mentioned this myself....


On Thursday, December 26, 2013 3:26:28 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
>  On 12/26/2013 8:12 AM, John Clark wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 2:10 PM, Edgar L. Owen <<javascript:>> 
> wrote:
>   > The proof is simply the fact that the time traveling twins meet up 
>> again with different clock times, but always in the exact same present 
>> moment. This proves beyond any doubt there are two kinds of time, clock 
>> time which varies by relativistic observer, and the time of the present 
>> moment (what I call P-time) which is absolute and common to all observers 
>> across the universe.
>  It's all a question of simultaneity, sometimes observers can agree that 
> 2 events were simultaneous, and sometimes they can not, it all depends on 
> the circumstances; and the amount of disagreement can vary from zero to as 
> large a value as you'd care to name. So I don't see why zero is more 
> special or "absolute" than any other number. 
>  And nothing that happens in the Andromeda Galaxy 2 million light years 
> away can have any effect on me for 2 million years, and nothing I do can 
> have any effect on Andromeda for 2 million years. So even asking "what are 
> things like right now on Andromeda?" is a ambiguous question. Does it mean 
> how things look in my telescope when light left Andromeda 2 million years 
> ago? Or does it mean Andromeda 2 million years in the future when something 
> I do here can make a change there? So what does "right now" even mean?
> It does have a meaning in most models of cosmology.  "Now" is defined by a 
> comoving frame in the expanding FRW universe. Operationally it means 
> anybody who sees the CMB at the same isotropic temperature is sharing the 
> same "now".  But this is selecting a preferred frame based on empirical 
> boundary conditions.  Edgar refers to his P-time as being related to 
> curvature of spacetime, so maybe this is what he's talking about, but in 
> spite of my asking several times he hasn't replied.
> Brent

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
To post to this group, send email to
Visit this group at
For more options, visit

Reply via email to