Very good, Edgar. Do you now consider Wheeler's Participatory Anthropic Principle, to not be involved as an observer, but instead, an unconscious participant? As merely a point of laser light striking an unaware photo-receptor? It is there to measure, but no cognition behind it.


Mitch
-----Original Message-----
From: Edgar L. Owen <edgaro...@att.net>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Dec 27, 2013 12:33 pm
Subject: Re: The 'Super Anthropic Principle' - why multiverses are not needed and thus very unlikely

Spudboy,

Good question.


It has to be clearly understood that an observer is always a participant in the event he observes. An observation is always an event.


Physics tends to think of observers as standing outside the events they observe, but what they really do is participate in subsequent events to the particular event they imagine they are observing. E.g. a human observer does not actually observe the quantum event he is usually talking about except through a chain of other events terminating in his visual participation with a measuring device, which is of course another set of quantum events, since all events are quantum events.


So, in a general sense, all participants in every event, even down to the particle level, act as observers of that event, and information about events flows computationally through networks of connected events. 


In my book on Reality I call this 'The Sherlock Holmes Principle' and it is the basis of all knowledge, both scientific knowledge and the knowledge of direct experience.


Edgar








On Thursday, December 26, 2013 4:14:04 PM UTC-5, spudb...@aol.com wrote:Not to be dense, but what are you defining as participant versus
observer?

-----Original Message-----
From: Edgar L. Owen &lt;edga...@att.net&gt;
To: everything-list &lt;everyth...@googlegroups.com&gt;
Sent: Thu, Dec 26, 2013 7:25 am
Subject: Re: The 'Super Anthropic Principle' - why multiverses are not
needed and thus very unlikely

Spudboy,

There is no observer in the usual sense of a human observer needed for
quantum events. But in effect every participant in a quantum event acts
as an observer of that event. The theory of decoherence has rightfully
superseded the old mistaken notion of an observer 'causing' a
wavefunction collapse, if that's what you are referring to.


Edgar






On Wednesday, December 25, 2013 11:52:10 AM UTC-5, Edgar L. Owen
wrote:All,

ST=spacetime, c=speed of light, thus STc Principle.


To answer some of Jason's questions. Block time is wrong. Only the
common present moment exists. All the comments Jason makes refer only
to differences in clock times which are well known, but the important
point is that all those differences in clock time occur in the SAME
common present moment.. I find it difficult to understand why so many
people can't get their minds around the difference which proves there
are two distinct kinds of time.


The past exists only as inferences from the present as to what states
would have resulted in the present according to the currently known
laws of physics. Therefore the past is actually determined by the
present state of reality from the perspective of the present which is
the only valid perspective. Therefore the logical network of past and
present is absolute 100% exact and could not have been different in
even the slightest detail. The actual currently state of the universe
falsifies the very possibility of other pasts. This is another
difficult concept for many. 


Only the future is probabilistic because it does not yet exist and has
never been computed. But the past - present logical state has been
actually computed and thus is completely deterministic now that it
exists and it could not have been different in any minute detail at all.


This solves the problem of the original fine tuning. Given the current
state of reality which is all that exists, all other conceivable fine
tunings are impossible. This is what I call the 'Super Anthropic
Principle', and it negates the necessity and probably the actuality of
postulating any multiverses and strongly implies our observable
universe is most probably the only one that exists.


Edgar








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