# Re: Bruno's mathematical reality

```On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:06 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Clearly programmes don't have to be deterministic. They could contain a
> source of genuine randomness, in principle.
>```
```
That source, if it is within the program, would necessarily be
deterministic.  If it is external to the program, then it is more properly
treated as an input to the program rather than a part of the program itself.

In practice, computers draw on sources of environmental noise such as
delays between keystrokes, timing of the reception of network traffic, and
delays in accessing data off of hard drives, etc. These steps are necessary
precisely because programs cannot produce randomness on their own.

Jason

> I don't think the UD does, however.
>
> The definition of deterministic would be - gives the same output on each
> run (given that the UD has no input).
>
>
>
> On 28 December 2013 17:03, Stephen Paul King
> <stephe...@provensecure.com>wrote:
>
>> I ask this because I am studying Carl Hewitt's Actor Model...
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Stephen Paul King <
>> stephe...@provensecure.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi jason,
>>>
>>>   Do programs have to be "deterministic". What definition of
>>> deterministic are you using?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:00 PM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 10:54 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 28 December 2013 16:44, Stephen Paul King <
>>>>> stephe...@provensecure.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Jason,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The first, second, 10th, 1,000,000th, and 10^100th, and
>>>>>> 10^100^100th state of the UD's execution are mathematical facts ..."
>>>>>> Umm, how? Godel and Matiyasevich would disagree! If there does not exist
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> program that can evaluate whether or not a UD substring is a faithful
>>>>>> representation of a "true theorem", then how is it "a fact"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That depends on whether the UD is deterministic or not.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is. The evolution of any Turing machines is deterministic.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> If it is, then, its Nth state is a fact. (It doesn't need to be run or
>>>>> evaluated, and the Nth state may be a fact that nobody knows, like the
>>>>> googolth digit of pi, assuming no one's worked that out.)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Right. :-)
>>>>
>>>> The fact that I remember drinking a glass of water is as much a
>>>> mathematical fact about the UD, as the fact as the third decimal digit of
>>>> Pi is 4.
>>>>
>>>> Jason
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Kindest Regards,
>>>
>>> Stephen Paul King
>>>
>>> Senior Researcher
>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Kindest Regards,
>>
>> Stephen Paul King
>>
>> Senior Researcher
>>
>> Mobile: (864) 567-3099
>>
>> stephe...@provensecure.com
>>
>>  http://www.provensecure.us/
>>
>>
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>
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