Hi LizR and Jason, Responding to both of you. I don't understand the claim of determinism is "random noise" is necessary for the computations. Turing machines require exact pre-specifiability. Adding noise oracles is cheating!
On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:22 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 28 December 2013 17:15, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:06 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Clearly programmes don't have to be deterministic. They could contain a >>> source of genuine randomness, in principle. >>> >> >> That source, if it is within the program, would necessarily be >> deterministic. If it is external to the program, then it is more properly >> treated as an input to the program rather than a part of the program itself. >> >> In practice, computers draw on sources of environmental noise such as >> delays between keystrokes, timing of the reception of network traffic, and >> delays in accessing data off of hard drives, etc. These steps are necessary >> precisely because programs cannot produce randomness on their own. >> >> I knew that - honest! :-) > > I was answering the question as posed. I believe that in practice all > real-world programmes are deterministic, and (more to the point) the UD is. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/sqWzozazMg0/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- Kindest Regards, Stephen Paul King Senior Researcher Mobile: (864) 567-3099 stephe...@provensecure.com http://www.provensecure.us/ “This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may be constituted as attorney work product. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, notify sender immediately and delete this message immediately.” -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.