Hi LizR and Jason,

  Responding to both of you. I don't understand the claim of determinism is
"random noise" is necessary for the computations. Turing machines require
exact pre-specifiability. Adding noise oracles is cheating!


On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:22 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 28 December 2013 17:15, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:06 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Clearly programmes don't have to be deterministic. They could contain a
>>> source of genuine randomness, in principle.
>>>
>>
>> That source, if it is within the program, would necessarily be
>> deterministic.  If it is external to the program, then it is more properly
>> treated as an input to the program rather than a part of the program itself.
>>
>> In practice, computers draw on sources of environmental noise such as
>> delays between keystrokes, timing of the reception of network traffic, and
>> delays in accessing data off of hard drives, etc. These steps are necessary
>> precisely because programs cannot produce randomness on their own.
>>
>> I knew that - honest! :-)
>
> I was answering the question as posed. I believe that in practice all
> real-world programmes are deterministic, and (more to the point) the UD is.
>
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