I don't intend to play DA or Defense just muse about the 'firmness' of  a
temporary "scientific belief" (even supportable by tests using instruments
- or theories - based on the acceptability of those "beliefs"). There were
'centuries' with scientific belief of the Geocentric pattern - when
Copernicus thought differently, introducing 'centuries of "heliocentrism"-'
until Hubble came up with brand new ideas leading to a 'firm' scientific
belief of a Big Bang based cosmology. And it MAY go on and on.
No one tried to try the 'new' to be subject to the experimental proof of
the old.

I am not on Edgar's side, I am agnostic. Physical law and other
conventional science make only 'practical' sense to me - they are
facilitating the development of an (almost) fitting new technology - I
dislike 'thought experiments' and human logic based proof applied to new
systems/ideas about the 'totality'.

The R. Rosen 'model' of the world - the limited ensemble of the presently
knowables - is part of the wider totality of (as I like to call it)
Infinite Complexity of Everything. We have no way to learn more than
included within the model and the format is adjusted to our limited mental
capabilities: accordingly the 'infinite' may look(?) quite different. Yet
it has it's effect on the
In-Model ensemble.  We are part of the World, not above it, so our logic
and thinking may be partial as well. We 'use' practical conclusions - yet
should not draw final and universal ones on a totality we don't know. Call
it Scientific humility.

I like 'fresh' ideas penetrate the List (with more flesh, maybe, not only
hints to "in my book" references).

Respectfully (as a list-member since the last millennium)

John M


On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 6:31 PM, freqflyer07281972 <
thismindisbud...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Might I respectfully suggest the following:
>
> 1) That when you have an "obvious" intuition or brilliant stroke of
> insight that goes against a century or more of insight from the most
> distinguished physicists and
>
> 2) That when you are unable to operationalize your intuition in such a way
> that other people could perform an experiment to see what you are saying is
> true and that it does in fact go against the received wisdom then...
>
> You might reconsider the merit of your originally amazing intuition and
> ask yourself if you might not in fact be in error and/or suffering from a
> bit of self-deception. Yes, it does seem quite "obvious" and "self-evident"
> that we all share a single present, I absolutely and utterly agree with you
> here. However, I also appreciate the various thought experiments put
> forward by Einstein originally and now by other (quite sharp) people on
> this list pointing out how this intuition simply cannot be true. These
> thought experiments have later become actual experiments whose results have
> agreed, not with our incredibly clear and obvious intuition, but with the
> very counter-intuitive predictions that Einstein provided.
>
> I'm not going to hash out more examples. I don't think it's necessary.
> I've included some links you might want to read at the end. What I think is
> happening though is you might be deceiving yourself a bit in thinking that
> you are so brilliant in arriving at insights that absolutely no one else
> has come to, and you are kind of starting to come across like this 
> guy.<http://www.timecube.com/>
>
> If you really want to understand behavior of the physical world we live in
> (or apparently physical, but actually computational, a la Bruno), maybe try
> these links out:
>
> http://galileoandeinstein.physics.virginia.edu/lectures/srelwhat.html
>
> http://galileoandeinstein.physics.virginia.edu/lectures/synchronizing.html
>
> http://galileoandeinstein.physics.virginia.edu/lectures/time_dil.html
>
> Peace out,
>
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