Stathis and List:
from time to time it is useful to recall what we are thinking behind
'words'. Is the *'brain'* as used in this exchange indeed* 'brainfunction'*?
(ref. to "functionalism vs computationalism")
To 'preserve *mind*' begs the question how it is differentiated in this
Then again* 'intelligence'* is a flexible item (I start from "inter" -
"lego" = to read between the lines, not to stick to the (written?) words
The *'non-computable physics'* in Penrose's brain begs the question: *"STILL"
or "NOT AT ALL"?*
Is the acceptance of the* NEW* a *mind*function only, (increasing the
knowledge-base), or can be done by a hypercomputer as well (without proper
programming for the so far unknowables' input???)
And I hate the references to *'zombies',* whatever one thinks about them.
I stick to my common sense* in my agnosticism*.
On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 7:28 PM, Stathis Papaioannou <stath...@gmail.com>wrote:
> On 16 January 2014 23:08, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
> > On 16 Jan 2014, at 09:11, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
> >> On 16 January 2014 16:26, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> The computational metaphor in the sense of the brain works like the
> >>> CPU inside the box on your desk is clearly misleading, but the sense
> >>> a
> >>> computer can in theory do everything your brain can do is almost
> >>> certainly
> >>> correct. It is not that the brain is like a computer, but rather, that
> >>> computer can be like almost anything, including your brain or body, or
> >>> entire planet and all the people on it.
> >>> Jason
> >> I think neuroscientists have, over decades, used the computational
> >> metaphor in too literal a way. It is obviously not true that the brain
> >> is a digital computer, just as it is not true that the weather is a
> >> digital computer. But a digital computer can simulate the behaviour of
> >> any physical process in the universe (if physics is computable),
> >> including the behaviour of weather or the human brain. That means
> >> that, at least, it would be possible to make a philosophical zombie
> >> using a computer. The only way to avoid this conclusion would be if
> >> physics, and specifically the physics in the brain, is not computable.
> >> Pointing out where the non-computable physics is in the brain rarely
> >> figures on the agenda of the anti-computationalists. And even if there
> >> is non-computational physics in the brain, that invalidates
> >> computationalism, but not its superset, functionalism.
> > OK. But in a non standard sense of functionalism, as in the philosophy of
> > mind, functionalism is used for a subset of computationalism.
> > is computationalism with some (unclear) susbtitution level in mind
> > the neurons).
> > Now, I would like to see a precise definition of "your" functionalism. If
> > you take *all* functions, it becomes trivially true, I think. But any
> > restriction on the accepted functions, can perhaps lead to some
> > thesis. For example, the functions computable with this or that oracles,
> > continuous functions, etc.
> Briefly, computationalism is the idea that you could replace the brain
> with a Turing machine and you would preserve the mind. This would not
> be possible if there is non-computable physics in the brain, as for
> example Penrose proposes. But in that case, you could replace the
> brain with whatever other type of device is needed, such as a
> hypercomputer, and still preserve the mind. I would say that is
> consistent with functionalism but not computationalism. The idea that
> replicating the function of the brain by whatever means would not
> preserve the mind, i.e. would result in a philosophical zombie, is
> inconsistent with functionalism.
> Stathis Papaioannou
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