On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 11:50 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:

>  On 1/17/2014 7:34 PM, LizR wrote:
>  On 18 January 2014 16:08, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>  On Jan 17, 2014, at 6:58 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>  On 1/17/2014 2:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>> PA is a reality, by itself, indeed an existing Löbian machine, and PA
>> talks about a reality which is vaster than PA, and that no machine can
>> grasp in its entirety. You confuse theory and model here.
>> You can't kick Peano's axioms.
>>  What is your point? That things don't exist unless you can kick them?
>  Real things kick back. Maths kicks back...
> Only metaphorically.

The laws of physics prevent you from traveling at a speed more than
~300,000,000 m/s. The laws of arithmetic prevent you from writing down more
than 2 distinct factors of 17. They seem equally forceful, each in their
own way. The laws of mathematics may be even more forceful, for it is
conceivable in some physical universe you can go faster than the speed of
light in this universe, it is much harder to conceive of a universe where
you could write down a third factor of 17.


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