On 23 January 2014 23:47, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > > On 23 Jan 2014, at 07:42, meekerdb wrote: > > On 1/22/2014 10:38 PM, LizR wrote: > > On 23 January 2014 19:35, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: > >> On 1/22/2014 10:21 PM, LizR wrote: >> >>> The real world doesn't add raindrops, or most other things we think of >>> as entities - adding raindrops isn't 1+1, nature is really adding something >>> like 10^25 atoms to another 10^25. But it _does_ add bosons in a BEC. Even >>> when the constituents are indistinguishable, nature can perform simple >>> arithmetic with them. >>> >> >> I'd say *we* perform simple arithmetic to describe them - but only when >> we correctly recognize what is countable and what isn't. So the truth of >> Ax(x=/=x+1) is in Platonia. >> > > Platonia? Where's that, then? > > > In our heads and in our language (and publications of the AMS). > > > So, 2+2=4 was meaningless before life appeared on this planet? > I can easily imagine that "2+2=4" was meaningless, but I can't conceive > that 2+2=4 would be meaningless, if only because Platonia is out of time. > It is not related to physics, except that physics is a persistent illusion > coming from the machine's inside points of view in Platonia. > > This appears to be the fundamental "bone of contention" between you and Brent. He appears to believe arithmetic is a human invention which relates to reality because, well, (waves hands, and cunningly slips "AR" hat on) ... it just does, somehow.
Or if it doesn't, but is "out there" in some sense, that fact isn't of any fundamental importance. Hence all the robust discussion over whether there is a biggest number... ...which reminds me of a quote from James Blish's book "A Clash of Cymbals" (aka "The Triumph of Time"). I can't recall the exact date on which the universe was due to end (but I'm sure it implied a "universal present" - Blish's grasp of relativity wasn't the best, as his "Haertel overdrive" showed, but then it was only SF) - it was in the year 4004 AD (in reference to Archbishop Ussher of Armagh), so say it was the 6th of July for argument's sake. "And after that 6th of July there would be no 7th of July, forever and ever." -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
