2014/1/22, Stephen Paul King <[email protected]>: > Dear Alberto, > > I disagree, but like the direction of your thinking. > > On Monday, January 20, 2014 3:17:16 PM UTC-5, Alberto G.Corona wrote: >> >> Computation is understood as whatever made by a digital computer or >> something that can be emulated (or aproximated) by a digital computer. >> So everything is a computation. That is a useless definition. because >> it embrace everything. >> > > Not everything. It would embrace the category of emulations, simulations, > representations and all other information related aspects of the universe. > It is not necessary for this Category to be identified with the physical > world. Yes, it must be related to the physical but that relation can be a > morphism to another Category: that of physical objects, forces, > thermodynamics, energy, etc. Two Categories, side by side, separate yet > related. If we remove the possibility of distinguishing the members of the > Categories they collapse into singletons and then, and only then, are > Identical. > > >> >> Everything is legoland because everything can be emulated using lego >> pieces? No, my dear legologist. >> >> What about this definition? Computation is whatever that reduces >> entropy. In information terms, in the human context, computation is >> whatever that reduces uncertainty producing useful information and >> thus, in the environment of human society, a computer program is used >> ultimately to get that information and reduce entropy, that is to >> increase order in society, or at least for the human that uses it. >> > > Not correct. Computations that generate output that is identical to their > input exist. I would say that computations are *any* form of transformation >
Yes. there are computations that produce that. and computations that produce disorder in the real world. For example, a cruise missile. But... as long as the are though or they are build or they are used, the goal is to create some kind of order by the mind that defines, uses or build it. These computations at last produce certain desired order. Either are made for you to convince me about how meaningles is my definition or to kill terrorists in an enemy country etc. Ultimately the desired outcome is reduction of uncertainty and entropy around the designer. . It is a metaphisical position if you like. If you like, I can call "essence of computation" instead of "computation" as such. or alternatively "the self sustained process for which the computation is _ever_ made for" > of information, including transformations that are automorphisms. > > >> >> A simulation is an special case of the latter. >> >> So there are things that are computations: what the living beings do >> at the chemical, physiological or nervous levels (and rational, social >> and technological level in case of humans) . But there are things that >> are not computations: almost everything else. >> > > We are using a very narrow definition of computations and thus miss the > computations that physical processes outside of our CPUs and GPUs are > performing. If the functions of an Isolated physical system are such that > the transformations they induce in/on their cover space (?) of > representations are a simulation of the physical system, what obtains? A > one to one map of the system that co-evolves with it. When we consider > physical systems interacting with each other, could they additionally have > partial emulations of each other within their "self-simulations"? > >> >> >> -- >> Alberto. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
