On 31 Jan 2014, at 14:32, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
Telmo,
Block time and Bruno's comp can only tell us how a set fixed static
sequence of events could be perceived by some observer as a fixed
static sequence of events. It simply CANNOT tell us how time moves
ALONG that sequence.
Correct. But we just abandon the idea that there is a time moving
along that sequence. That does not change the experience of time flow
by the person.
The fact that time flows, that things change, is a fundamental
EMPIRICAL OBSERVATION.
It is a fundamental aspect of person experience. There is no empirical
evidence for it. Not one.
It is not some intuitive illusion. It is the basic measurable
observation of our existence and it never ceases from birth to
death. It simply cannot be disregarded as some sort of survival
mechanism. In fact if block time were actually real survival
mechanisms would not be needed because the future is already written
deterministically contrary to QM and in violation of all sorts of
physical laws.
So you assume QM?
And QM with collapse?
QM without collapse admits a block multiverse description, with
profusion of different relative futures.
If you think block time exists then where does that entire block
come from?
It comes from 2+2=4. It is amazing, but "well known" in theoretical
computer science.
Did it create itself?
No.
Bruno
Sequentially or all at once? Did something outside of it create it?
What? How? Was it created causally in time? Or did it just magically
appear like some kind of miracle? The believers in block time have
an unfortunate habit of not thinking through the implications of
their crazy theory.....
Again, the best way I can say it is that your mouth has to move
plenty to tell me it isn't moving!
Best,
Edgar
On Friday, January 31, 2014 8:08:32 AM UTC-5, telmo_menezes wrote:
Hi Edgar,
On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 1:13 PM, Edgar L. Owen <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Liz,
>
> Your mouth sure has to move a lot to tell us it's not moving!
>
> The problem is not that static equations DESCRIBE aspects of
reality. The
> problem is that you are denying the flow of time.
Why is this a problem? How can you know for sure that there is a flow
of time? Block universe hypothesis can explain how time would appear
to flow for each observer. This doesn't prove that block universe
hypothesis are correct, but they cannot be dismissed that easily
either.
Now you could argue that this is counter-intuitive, but I would remind
you that nature doesn't care. Our intuition is just a bunch of
heuristics evolved to deal with a very narrow set of survival
scenarios.
> For equations to compute (not just describe) reality, there must
be active
> processor cycles. There is simply NO way around that...
I wonder.
Telmo.
> Edgar
>
>
>
> On Thursday, January 30, 2014 10:24:48 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote:
>>
>> Why do some people have such a problem with "how change can
emerge from
>> something static" ? It's as simple as F = ma - a static equation
describing
>> something changing. Change is by definition things being
different at
>> different times. If you map out all the times involved as a
dimension, you
>> will naturally get a "static" universe, just as putting together
all the
>> moments making up a movie gives you a reel of film - but only
from a "God's
>> eye perspective". This is the perspective science gives us, the
perspective
>> given by using equations and models and maps to describe reality;
it isn't
>> the world of everyday experience, which (at best) views those
equations and
>> so on from within (assuming for a moment they are so accurate as
to be
>> isomorphic to reality).
>>
>> Obtaining change from the static view used by science is a non-
problem,
>> and has been since Newton published his Principia.
>>
>> There are problems with comp, of course, like the "white rabbit"
problem.
>> Does anyone have any new views on the real problems, rather than
worrying
>> about straw men?
>>
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