Liz, Two points in response:
1. Despite what you and Telmo claim we do directly observe change (the flow of time) independent of memory. Cognitive and neural science both clearly demonstrate that though you don't seem to be familiar with those results. 2. Even the comparison of past memories with present events requires an actively moving computational process. A completely still world simply does not register. Consider a flash frozen brain that is in the exact neurochemical state of its freezing. The instantaneous state of all its thoughts is still there flash frozen. Do you claim that brain has any awareness of those thoughts or sensations? Of course not. It is effectively dead. Only actual change registers. The block universe delusion consists of such flash frozen brains with mental impressions of a flash frozen universe. The block universe is a DEAD universe. Also consider this re the origin of a block universe: A block universe implies the entire history of the universe was created all at once somehow, AND yet that entire history contains an enormous event sequence that makes sense only in a strict temporal order. Now you have to imagine somehow that that entire sequential logical structure could be created (by something outside itself?) in a NON-sequential manner in exact deterministic detail for every event in the entire universe throughout its entire history. That is an idea simply so ludicrous it beggars belief. It is difficult enough to explain how just the fine tuning of a dozen or some constants could have been created, much less everything else in exact detail without exception for the entire duration of time science believes that fine tuning led to. And you have to explain how the incredibly complex event SEQUENCES of the whole could have been accurately computed IF they weren't created sequentially. How did the universe know which event sequence would lead to which unless they were actually sequentially computed? How could it possibly know what came next if it didn't compute that sequentially from prior states? The block universe is a BS theory. It assumes the very sequential creation it then denies. In essence it's a modern creation myth enormously more improbable than even the Biblical version because the Biblical version very modestly just assumes God created the initial universe and then let it develop on its own (with occasional interventions). Block universe theory is a creation myth on steroids that assumes the most magical miraculous creation event imaginable. As such it's no wonder that is has become a religious belief system that must be defended at all costs by its fanatical devotees against anyone that might speak against it! Edgar On Sunday, February 2, 2014 5:20:00 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: > > On 3 February 2014 00:04, Telmo Menezes <[email protected]<javascript:> > > wrote: > >> On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Edgar L. Owen >> <[email protected]<javascript:>> >> wrote: >> > Hi Telmo, >> > >> > No, because I don't have to remember that my clock moved. I can actually >> > OBSERVE it in the process of moving. That's one of many reasons block >> times >> > including Bruno's don't make sense. >> >> Could you observe the clock moving if you had no memory? For example, >> could you describe an algorithm that detects movement without >> resorting to keeping state in some variable? >> > > Nicely done. You put your finger on the crux of the argument. A block > universe requires that the state of variables are constrained to either > stay the same or change continuously, since all worldlines are 4D > structures embedded in space-time. "Presentism" has no obvious need for > such constraints, hence it has to smuggle in what is effectively a block > universe by making use of memory - which is exactly what BU proponents say > allows us to have a sense of being part of an apparent "flow" of time. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
