Hi Richard, Yes, that is a good example. R-computations, the R-math computations that actual compute the current information state of the universe, never have a halting problem because they are a program that always simply computes the next state from the current state which is ALWAYS possible.
The Godel incompleteness and Halting problems only apply to H-math cases where a human mathematician comes up with a mathematical statement in advance, and then tries to get an automated system to computationally reach that state and thus prove it. Reality doesn't work this way. It never 'imagines' any state to then try and reach it computationally. That would amount to teleology. R-math just always computes the next state from the present state. Just as ordinary software programs never have any problem at all in continually producing programmed output, so R-computations never do either. R-computations ALWAYS happily compute the current state of reality no matter what Bruno, Godel, or Turing or anybody else postulates about H-math. The proof of this is clearly that the universe DOES happily keep on existing, in spite of any H-mathematician telling us it doesn't or might not, or couldn't. Best, Edgar On Monday, February 17, 2014 9:07:35 AM UTC-5, yanniru wrote: > > Edgar, > > We recently learned on this list that a Turing machine does not halt based > on real numbers and apparently can only halt for the natural numbers. I > wonder if that may correspond to your claim of the computations of nature > being different from the computations of humans. If I remember correctly > you referred to the former as R computations and the latter as H > computations. > Richard > > > On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 8:49 AM, Edgar L. Owen <[email protected]<javascript:> > > wrote: > >> Russell, >> >> And, as I mentioned, there is exhaustive evidence from cognitive science, >> and the sciences of physiology and perception, of the many specific >> different ways that humans DO model an external reality in their internal >> mental models of reality. >> >> Why do you just reject all this well documented science out of hand? >> >> Edgar >> >> On Sunday, February 16, 2014 6:54:48 PM UTC-5, Russell Standish wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 01:40:15PM -0800, Edgar L. Owen wrote: >>> > Russell, >>> > >>> > Well, there is overwhelming evidence of many sorts. The very fact that >>> you >>> > and I can even communicate about this issue is one proof, unless you >>> think >>> > I'm just a pesky figment of your imagination! >>> >>> It is evidence only of an intersubjective reality. That there is a >>> common reality (to us) that we can agree on. Indeed, COMP, to take one >>> theory of consciousness, predicts the existence of such an >>> intersubjective >>> reality. But, it is not evidence of a reality independent of all >>> observers. >>> >>> > >>> > And of course that can't possibly be true since I was here just fine >>> before >>> > I ever met you.... >>> > >>> > The obvious fact that we have to eat and breathe to survive, unless >>> you >>> > believe that just imagining food and oxygen is enough to sustain us. >>> > >>> >>> That is evidence of the Anthropic Principle (there is much stronger >>> evidence of that too), ie what we observe as reality must be >>> consistent with our existence within that reality. The Anthropic >>> Principle >>> does not imply an observer independent reality - that would be a >>> reverse syllogism fallacy. >>> >>> > So again I would say you are confusing the internal simulation of >>> reality >>> > that all minds produce, and that everyone thinks is the real world he >>> lives >>> > in, with the real external reality that all minds simulate each in >>> their >>> > own way. >>> > >>> >>> Keep going. You still haven't provided any evidence that this "real >>> external reality" actually exists! Until you do so, I will state that >>> there is nothing here to confuse. Of course, if you actually succeed, >>> not only will many people be surprised, you will undoubtedly be the >>> most famous philosopher since Aristotle and Plato. >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> -- >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) >>> Principal, High Performance Coders >>> Visiting Professor of Mathematics [email protected] >>> University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] <javascript:>. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]<javascript:> >> . >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
