On 09 Mar 2014, at 20:17, Chris de Morsella wrote:



From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 10:34 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The situation at Fukushima appears to be deteriorating


On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 3:39 AM, Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com > wrote:

>> I not only know they're very violent I know why they're violent. If government made chocolate bars illegal the demand for chocolate bars would not end and organizations would come into existence to fill that demand. And the underground Hershey candy company and the underground Nestles candy company couldn't sue each other in the courts and so would have no way to settle disputes except through baseball bats and machine guns.

> Come on man nobody is going to kill someone else over a bar of chocolate

>>Of course they will! Chocolate is a multibillion dollar industry and there is a very strong demand for it that will not disappear just because some pinhead in government passes a law against it. Legal or illegal whenever there is a demand for product X, prostitution, drugs, pirate DVDs, pornography, chocolate bars or whatever, there will always be people willing to cater to that demand if the price is right.

John we are going to have to disagree on that. A heroin junkie will do almost anything to get their next fix... so will an alcoholic for that matter (and if you had said alcohol I would have, of course very much agreed with you), but Chocolate?


Hmm... I have to agree with John here. Actually, some results on a "free heroin distribution" has confirmed than when an heroin user is reassured of the possibility of the fix, it needs it already much less. Then chocolate is both toxic and addictive (which always means with varying degrees in some percentage of the population).




Come on man be serious. I know it is a multi-billion dollar industry and that sure a black market for it would spring into existence - and at some level criminality would take control. But at the street level - you will never find chocolate junkies mugging little old ladies or prostituting themselves for a few dollars (like crack whores do) to get the bar of chocolate they crave.

Hmm.... I am not sure. As chocolate is less toxic than crack, that would be a good idea to make chocolate illegal. Chocolate is complex and most often consumed with sugar, which is a rather famous molecule too, with respect to health.

Let us send Santa Klaus to jail, if that one is not a dealer, destroying the teeth, sometimes the liver, of our kids!



Just imagining this scenario brings me to fits of laughter.

Me to. But less than our descendents, and even already most of ourselves, when seeing the propaganda against marijuana.


> There are no chocolate deals gone bad.

>>Absolutely untrue, there are plenty of chocolate deals that go bad and when they do the parties involved sue each other, that's why the big candy companies have hundreds of lawyers on their payrole. But because Meth dealers are selling a product that somebody in government has deemed illegal they do not have that option and must resort to what Clausewitz euphemistically called "diplomacy by other means", that is to say they make the other party an offer they can't refuse.

Sure, in principal we agree - but then on the other hand Methamphetamines and Chocolate have very different effects on the people who become addicted to them. The meth head will do almost anything - and they do - they murder, they steal, they prostitute themselves the whole shebang; chocolate addicts are not going to start going out and committing street crime in order to get their fix. And this IS the difference.


Substance having a high addiction potential must be sold in pharmacy, with a medical prescription. Addicted people can be cured, which has to be encouraged when the substance is also toxic, or social perturbing (like alcohol addiction usually is).




Again if you had used the example of alcohol; I would have agreed that the alcoholic would break into a car to steal a stereo to hawk in order to by their black market possibly adulterated bottle of moonshine.


It is indeed different for each products, but prohibition, instead of regulation, aggravates the problem, whatever the substance is (when edible or consumable).



> I think government has a role to play in enforcing correct labeling and ingredients

>>I pretty much agree with perhaps a few caveats.

Think of it as a reporting function.



> But not enforce monopolies - as it does with medical & dental practice, and the drug sector for example.

Agreed.

 > A black market degenerates into a cutthroat cartel

True, but the blackness of the market has nothing to do with the nature of the commodity being transacted, it's black because somebody in government decided to make it black. Tobacco has killed many orders of magnitude more people than Meth and all other illegal drugs put together, but the market for tobacco is not black because somebody in government decided that particular drug is not illegal; so when tobacco deals go bad they don't machine gun each other, they sue each other.

Basically I agree... but come on man, Chocolate? The image of the crazed methhead needing a fix - has some basis in reality... that will never translate into a chocolate-head behavioral analogue.

I can agree with this, but then it can be like with cannabis. Everybody will eat chocolate, but not brag on this, nor killing people to get their "fix". Many will consume not that much, although depressive state can lead to overconsumption, and you have to take care or see a doctor or something.



Other legal drugs (including Tobacco) are much better examples. But essentially, in broad strokes I think we are more or less in agreement on this matter.

I guess you never met a genuine chocoholic :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chocoholic

http://www.google.be/search?q=chocolate+addiction&safe=off&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=k9wdU9LPPOe47Abdo4HQBA&sqi=2&ved=0CEcQsAQ&biw=1182&bih=1078

Of course that' part of the "natural" addiction to food.


The government has no business legislating morality or intruding into the bedroom or the personal lives and habits of people. Most of the people currently in prison in this country are in prison for non- violent drug offenses - mostly intent to sell raps. It is a travesty of justice and has imposed a massive social and human cost on us all. It is stupid policy.

We agree on this.

Bruno




Chris

  John K Clark

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