On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 8:00 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On 04 May 2014, at 21:18, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > > > > On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 6:48 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> On Sunday, May 4, 2014 1:43:12 PM UTC+1, telmo_menezes wrote: >>> >>> The machine: >>> http://existentialcomics.com/comic/1 >>> >>> Bad news from the doctor: >>> http://existentialcomics.com/comic/11 >>> >>> Turing test: >>> http://existentialcomics.com/comic/15 >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Telmo. >>> >> >> >> So where do you stand on this Telmo? I suppose I've rather raised my >> hopes that your answer, like mine, is not straight forward. >> > > I have no explanation for consciousness. My current inclination is > panpsychism. > > > The problem here is twofold: > 1) what "pan" refers to? (A physical world, then you need to say "no" to > the doctor, Arithmetical truth? perhaps, if the brain is really a > consciousness filter (I am still not sure if this makes really sense with > comp). > 2) what *is* psychisme (is it Turing emulable? if yes primitive matter is > an illusion, and physics is a branch of theology, if not what is it?) > I just mean that I am inclined to see consciousness as fundamental, so I believe this puts me on the Platonic camp. The idea that physical reality is a dream of consciousness appeals to me. I think your theory provides a very compelling path to understanding how the dream(s) arise, but I don't think it can tell us what the dreamer is. I'm inclined to take the dreamer as fundamental, the absolute, god in a non-theistic sense... I also like your idea of machines introspecting. This leads us to something that match our intuitions: a dog is conscious, a tea cup is not. But not because the dog's brain magically generates consciousness, just because the dog's brain is capable of machine introspection, and thus capable of providing content to the dream. Telmo. > > Bruno > > > > > >> Maybe just because I'm just lonely since Liz walked out on me...this >> vague cloud of abstraction never seemed so cavernous when she was around, >> her 70's punk echoing through the theory of nothing that - well you know >> itt wasn't a theory, but maybe it wasn't nuthin' neither. >> > > Hey, I like 70's punk rock too! > > >> >> Seriously, I saw a hint of scientific realism in something you said at >> some point. Nearly vanished but managed to block my ears when you started >> talking about consciousness not between the ears. Don't do that. >> > > I believe that science is the only valid tool we have to understand public > reality. If you have a good "consciousness between the ears" theory then... > I'm all ears. Other theories are ok too. My position is that what makes a > theory scientific is it's falsifiability, that's all. It doesn't matter how > weird the theory sounds, it only matters if it makes valid predictions or > not. Common sense has been shown to be misleading many times, and to an > amazing degree with quantum mechanics. > > I am not sure that consciousness will ever be investigated by science, > because I'm not sure it will ever be possible to measure it or test for > it's presence. In this case (or meanwhile), we have to make do with thought > experiments and introspection on private reality. > > Telmo. > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
