On 20 Jun 2014, at 01:20, Russell Standish wrote:
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 07:53:55PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote:
And why do you say that anybody (whether zombie or not) can *prove*
the existence of primitive matter? We don't know that for a fact.
I played the devil advocate. I put my foot in Peter Jones' food, and
imagine he could convince us of the existence of primitive matter,
and from that I get a contradiction.
In the case such a "valid" proof exist, it is just trivial to make a
mechanical procedure to find it, that's why I said any zombie can
find it. Validity is a recursive/decidable/total-computable/sigma_0
notion, unlike provability, which is sigma_1 (partial-computable,
semi-decidable), and consistency, which is pi_1 (like Riemann
Hypothesis).
Ah, yes I see that now. I guess I was implicitly assuming that such a
proof didn't necessarily exist. Non-existence of the proof does not
entail that primitive matter doesn't exist.
But I understand you've now shown that such a proof cannot exist. I
wasn't party to your conversations with Peter Jones (I probably
skipped
over them at the time when they got interminably long), so cannot
comment how that result fits in with that discussion. But I don't see
how you parlay this into a proof of step 8.
It's nice that the misunderstanding is cleared up.
I have to think more.
If primitive matter existed, and if it has a role for consciousness,
or for consciousness instantiation, step 8, and the argument above,
makes that role very mysterious, so much that it is not clear why we
could still say yes to the doctor in virtue of correct digital
rendering.
Then that primitive matter should be detectible by the comp argument,
so the argument for reifying "primitive matter" is made into an
argument of not searching to test its existence, which is unscientific.
But I have to clarify the relation between both arguments. No doubt.
Best,
Bruno
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Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
Principal, High Performance Coders
Visiting Professor of Mathematics [email protected]
University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au
Latest project: The Amoeba's Secret
(http://www.hpcoders.com.au/AmoebasSecret.html)
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