From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]
Addressing questions. Its a debacle more over the last 5 years then before,
but yes, it sucked. On the other hand, I am more bloody-minded then Bushie
was (I suspect this is because of his friendship with the Saudi royals) and
I would have done Afghanistan and the Pakistan circa Oct 200, for the Bin
Laden thing, and would have wiped out anyone protecting him-so please
realize who your are arguing with.
Oh. I realize who I am arguing with - a couch potato general who has never
tasted war, wishing war (for others to wage in distant lands). One question
Rambo, you had your chance, why didn't you go yourself?
The clash of civilizations was ever true and is more true today. I take it,
Chris, that you are not a dweller in the UK or Spain with the subway
bombings? I suspect that lack of cause and effect influences your opinion
aside from pure ideology? A guess, no more.
I have lived in both the UK and in Spain and visited several other times. I
was also living in the NYC metro area on 911 and saw the aftermath with my
own eyes in person.. I hugged the firemen who were in tears balling like
babies - the ones who had lost 80% of their colleagues on that day. I walked
through the streets with the flowers and candles burning and experienced the
human trauma of that terror act of outsized scale. The day of 911 I was
working to set up a fallback crisis response center for the Associated Press
(for whom I was developing software at the time), in case headquarters in
Rockefeller center also got hit (in those first hours no one really knew the
scope of this act)
Where were you?
I support mil actions as long as its fought like total war. Think WW2. Note,
that nuanced responses have done little since WW2, although the Korean War
is the most solid, maybe? If its worth fighting, then its worth willing to
the max. Neither Bushie nor, Obama hold this position as something they
want. Otherwise, try bribes, incentives and all that diplomacy provides-just
don't expect it to work. It really has not.
Good thing for us all that you are just a couch potato general then.
Since 9-11 was launched with Taliban support, how were we not going to
trouble them? Be peaceful so we can make progressives feel better?
The Taliban had nothing operationally to do with 911 - they may have been
medieval minded intolerant fundamentalist fascists who were harboring Al
Qaida (who had fought side by side with them to drive the Russians from
Afghanistan, and who for decades had been funded, armed and trained by the
way by the US CIA and military based on the same realpolitik rational). But
they were not involved with 911? And the afghan, farmers, goat and sheep
herders (90% of the country) how exactly where they involved generalissimo?
The failure of Bush was failure to fight to win, a novel thing in this day
and age. What could we have done outside of boots on the ground.
Answer-carpet bombing as we did in Haiphong Harbor in North Vietnam. It
actually brought peace, a truce for 2+ years, before the North took over.
Yeah like that won the war LOL - I witnessed the end of that war in person
and it was not an American victory. So what did dropping more tons of
explosive on Indochina than in all theaters of WWII put together accomplish?
What objective was achieved? I was living there during the last year of that
"peace". I saw that "peace" with my own eyes. You really don't have a clue
do you. peace, what peace?
Every single night - during the curfew from dusk to dawn - Saigon would go
quiet and the skies around it would be lit up by the light of the green
flares parachuting down and the flashes from just over the horizon followed
a short time later by the thuds of the booms of the bombs - being dropped in
the ill-defined moving war zone that encircled the fortress city. I saw the
long convoys of military trucks with two caskets per truck bringing the
corpses back to be given to their grieving families.
I really despise couch potato generals who have never seen war, never felt
the suffering and deep terror of war.. bragging (empty bragging) about how
they would bomb this and bomb that.
Why didn't you go personally and volunteer to be shipped off to Iraq, then
Rambo? Are you perchance a chickenhawk. a hawk for other people, but a
chicken when it comes to your own flesh and blood?
What about the Islamist lands in question? When they re-take the un-held
lands once more after the bombing stops and start rebuilding. Well, one more
time! We'd defeat their goals and keep them off balance. How long?
Permanently. There are other options of course, aside war, but none that
seem to work.
You seem fetishistic about war. go fight then, or admit that you are in fact
a couch potato coward, wishing for others to go die so you can get that
adrenalin rush of self-righteousness vicarious thrill (from the safety of
your couch generalissimo). It seems to me that it is cowards who bark the
loudest for war; warriors who have fought war tend to be more cautious and
reluctant to jump on in another fight. and you do make lots of noise about
making war (from the safety of your couch at least) - I suspect if the
military accepted you (which I have my doubts they would) and shipped you
off to some front line position somewhere that you would be messing your
pants spudboy.
The big ugly, is that the establishment world-wide, the Davos guys, tend to
be pacifist in nature because it brings in the lucre from Saudi, Oman,
Dubai, Yemen, cash on the barrel head. That's nice for them, but less so for
the middle classes worldwide, that they don't care about, usually.
You have it all figured out don't you? Thanks for the humor.. Soldier.
Chris
Where does this leave us today, whatever our opinions? No where, because
we're just a couple of dudes on a mailing list, and don't have the valuta
for any influence.
Did progressives lead America in the Iraq war debacle that has bankrupted
this country (thre trillion dollars and counting) Or was that war begun by
neocons in the Bush administration -- using the self same clash of
civilizations rhetoric you employ all the time. The same goes for the
American war in Afghanistan.
Who was it begun by? Under what administration?
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
<[email protected]>
To: everything-list <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, Jun 26, 2014 10:08 pm
Subject: Re: American Intelligence
_____
From: spudboy100 via Everything List <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: American Intelligence
>>Sure, but if one is pushed to try to put out fires that progressives are
lighting around the world,
What fires are "progressives" starting. Did progressives lead America in the
Iraq war debacle that has bankrupted this country (thre trillion dollars and
counting) Or was that war begun by neocons in the Bush administration --
using the self same clash of civilizations rhetoric you employ all the time.
The same goes for the American war in Afghanistan.
Who was it begun by? Under what administration?
>> and, or enabling jihadists to do so, one can develop the Manichean
attitude.
How exactly are progressives enabling jihadists? You almost make us sound
traitorous -- employing the typical rhetoric of war mongering folk.
>> It's unwise to light fires during a dry spell and this is what
progressives do, because its how they "feel."
More BS -- the big recent wars (the ones that have resulted in by far most
death and injury and that have drained the US treasury were all begun under
the Bush administration.
>>Or "feel" is right. I could fly into a rage, or pretend to, and shriek,
"how dare you typify me as a tea bagger..yadda yadda yadda."
I think it is pretty evident why I typify you as a Tea bagger -- your
rhetoric comes straight out of their playbook..
Cheers,
Chris
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