From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2014 5:48 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: American Intelligence
Oh… I realize who I am arguing with – a couch potato general who has never
tasted war, wishing war (for others to wage in distant lands). One question
Rambo, you had your chance, why didn’t you go yourself?
Chrissy, your tautings tend to resemble the last resort of the progressive. to
which I shrug in response. I visited the WTC ruins in Nov 2001, and my nephew
and his wife worked and lived in Manhattan back then, and saw the attacks close
up, that day,and -so did lots of people, Being self righteous, is also typical
of the proggie, in that the world must live by your standards. Not wise, but
then its all emotion, idn't it?
I can see by the fact that you are now calling me “Chrissy” that I must have
hit a nerve in your chickenhawk manhood such as it is.
Just calling like I see it. I am not self-righteously calling for a major
world-wide total war, for the killing of millions of people – what I am doing
is calling you out for your war mongering rhetoric. You incessantly and loudly
call for a world war – e.g. your clash of civilizations – but you do it from
the safety of your couch…. e.g. you are a couch potato general. You are a war
mongering couch potato.
You could rectify this by going to your nearest recruitment center and
volunteering to go fight yourself, but somehow chickenhawks -- like you --
never get around, to actually going to do any of the fighting (an dying) in the
violence you seek to foment.
Doesn’t this kind of mean you are in fact a kind of coward?
The Taliban had nothing operationally to do with 911 –
Bullshit, because the head of the Taleban had one of his daughters married to
Bin Laden, and had invited Binny in, funded him. I wonder what the firemen you
say you hugged would feel had they read your analysis of the world? My guess is
they wouldn't feel good.
I do not even buy into the narrative for 911 you have swallowed hook line and
sinker; reality is a whole lot murkier than the public story – but I will not
get into that on this list. SO what if the Taliban leader had a daughter who
was married to Bin Laden – who had – putting it in context – been one of the
leaders of the Mujahedeen in the long struggle – alongside the Taliban and
other Afghan resistance forces against the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. What
is so surprising about that – and that means nothing. It does not mean that the
Taliban were involved.
You are full of it if you suggest that because the head of the Taliban’s
daughter was married off to Osama Bin Laden that this was a good cause for the
US to invade Afghanistan.
The United States of America invited Osama Bin Laden into Afghanistan and
funded and armed him and the other Mujahedeen with amongst other weapons
Stinger anti-aircraft missiles…. Are you a hypocrite? Osama Bin Laden was our
dog of war against the Soviets in Afghanistan; it was the USA who funded and
built AL Qaida (as we are now once again doing in Syria and Northwestern Iraq…
where they have become rebranded as “freedom fighters” (some kind of freedom
eh?)
Yeah like that won the war LOL – I witnessed the end of that war in person and
it was not an American victory. So what did dropping more tons of explosive on
Indochina than in all theaters of WWII put together accomplish? What objective
was achieved? I was living there during the last year of that “peace”. I saw
that “peace” with my own eyes. You really don’t have a clue do you… peace, what
peace?
Getting the US to grovel before the world hasn't have seemed to make things any
better, now has it? However, its what BHO and the progressive mind want, so
it's how it shall be.
LOL – where is the US groveling? Idiot. The fact is that currently 38% of all
the money spent in the whole world on military power is spent by the US on
maintaining its military hegemony. How you can construe this actual real
posture as even remotely being a form of groveling is some good evidence of
just how far removed from reality your own mental constructs have become.
Go do some of the fighting and the killing yourself coward; I despise people
who scream for war and insinuate that others who do not are somehow traitorous
fifth columnist types, especially these who do so from the safety of their
peaceful little homes. You are one of those kinds of people… and calling me
Chrissy does not transform you into a brave man spudboy.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Jun 28, 2014 1:33 pm
Subject: RE: American Intelligence
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com
<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com?> ]
Addressing questions. Its a debacle more over the last 5 years then before, but
yes, it sucked. On the other hand, I am more bloody-minded then Bushie was (I
suspect this is because of his friendship with the Saudi royals) and I would
have done Afghanistan and the Pakistan circa Oct 200, for the Bin Laden thing,
and would have wiped out anyone protecting him-so please realize who your are
arguing with.
Oh… I realize who I am arguing with – a couch potato general who has never
tasted war, wishing war (for others to wage in distant lands). One question
Rambo, you had your chance, why didn’t you go yourself?
The clash of civilizations was ever true and is more true today. I take it,
Chris, that you are not a dweller in the UK or Spain with the subway bombings?
I suspect that lack of cause and effect influences your opinion aside from pure
ideology? A guess, no more.
I have lived in both the UK and in Spain and visited several other times. I was
also living in the NYC metro area on 911 and saw the aftermath with my own eyes
in person.. I hugged the firemen who were in tears balling like babies – the
ones who had lost 80% of their colleagues on that day… I walked through the
streets with the flowers and candles burning and experienced the human trauma
of that terror act of outsized scale. The day of 911 I was working to set up a
fallback crisis response center for the Associated Press (for whom I was
developing software at the time), in case headquarters in Rockefeller center
also got hit (in those first hours no one really knew the scope of this act)
Where were you?
I support mil actions as long as its fought like total war. Think WW2. Note,
that nuanced responses have done little since WW2, although the Korean War is
the most solid, maybe? If its worth fighting, then its worth willing to the
max. Neither Bushie nor, Obama hold this position as something they want.
Otherwise, try bribes, incentives and all that diplomacy provides-just don't
expect it to work. It really has not.
Good thing for us all that you are just a couch potato general then.
Since 9-11 was launched with Taliban support, how were we not going to trouble
them? Be peaceful so we can make progressives feel better?
The Taliban had nothing operationally to do with 911 – they may have been
medieval minded intolerant fundamentalist fascists who were harboring Al Qaida
(who had fought side by side with them to drive the Russians from Afghanistan,
and who for decades had been funded, armed and trained by the way by the US CIA
and military based on the same realpolitik rational). But they were not
involved with 911? And the afghan, farmers, goat and sheep herders (90% of the
country) how exactly where they involved generalissimo?
The failure of Bush was failure to fight to win, a novel thing in this day and
age. What could we have done outside of boots on the ground. Answer-carpet
bombing as we did in Haiphong Harbor in North Vietnam. It actually brought
peace, a truce for 2+ years, before the North took over.
Yeah like that won the war LOL – I witnessed the end of that war in person and
it was not an American victory. So what did dropping more tons of explosive on
Indochina than in all theaters of WWII put together accomplish? What objective
was achieved? I was living there during the last year of that “peace”. I saw
that “peace” with my own eyes. You really don’t have a clue do you… peace, what
peace?
Every single night – during the curfew from dusk to dawn – Saigon would go
quiet and the skies around it would be lit up by the light of the green flares
parachuting down and the flashes from just over the horizon followed a short
time later by the thuds of the booms of the bombs – being dropped in the
ill-defined moving war zone that encircled the fortress city. I saw the long
convoys of military trucks with two caskets per truck bringing the corpses back
to be given to their grieving families.
I really despise couch potato generals who have never seen war, never felt the
suffering and deep terror of war.. bragging (empty bragging) about how they
would bomb this and bomb that.
Why didn’t you go personally and volunteer to be shipped off to Iraq, then
Rambo? Are you perchance a chickenhawk… a hawk for other people, but a chicken
when it comes to your own flesh and blood?
What about the Islamist lands in question? When they re-take the un-held lands
once more after the bombing stops and start rebuilding. Well, one more time!
We'd defeat their goals and keep them off balance. How long? Permanently. There
are other options of course, aside war, but none that seem to work.
You seem fetishistic about war… go fight then, or admit that you are in fact a
couch potato coward, wishing for others to go die so you can get that adrenalin
rush of self-righteousness vicarious thrill (from the safety of your couch
generalissimo). It seems to me that it is cowards who bark the loudest for war;
warriors who have fought war tend to be more cautious and reluctant to jump on
in another fight… and you do make lots of noise about making war (from the
safety of your couch at least) – I suspect if the military accepted you (which
I have my doubts they would) and shipped you off to some front line position
somewhere that you would be messing your pants spudboy.
The big ugly, is that the establishment world-wide, the Davos guys, tend to be
pacifist in nature because it brings in the lucre from Saudi, Oman, Dubai,
Yemen, cash on the barrel head. That's nice for them, but less so for the
middle classes worldwide, that they don't care about, usually.
You have it all figured out don’t you? Thanks for the humor…. Soldier.
Chris
Where does this leave us today, whatever our opinions? No where, because we're
just a couple of dudes on a mailing list, and don't have the valuta for any
influence.
Did progressives lead America in the Iraq war debacle that has bankrupted this
country (thre trillion dollars and counting) Or was that war begun by neocons
in the Bush administration -- using the self same clash of civilizations
rhetoric you employ all the time. The same goes for the American war in
Afghanistan.
Who was it begun by? Under what administration?
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jun 26, 2014 10:08 pm
Subject: Re: American Intelligence
_____
From: spudboy100 via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: American Intelligence
>>Sure, but if one is pushed to try to put out fires that progressives are
>>lighting around the world,
What fires are "progressives" starting. Did progressives lead America in the
Iraq war debacle that has bankrupted this country (thre trillion dollars and
counting) Or was that war begun by neocons in the Bush administration -- using
the self same clash of civilizations rhetoric you employ all the time. The same
goes for the American war in Afghanistan.
Who was it begun by? Under what administration?
>> and, or enabling jihadists to do so, one can develop the Manichean attitude.
How exactly are progressives enabling jihadists? You almost make us sound
traitorous -- employing the typical rhetoric of war mongering folk.
>> It's unwise to light fires during a dry spell and this is what progressives
>> do, because its how they "feel."
More BS -- the big recent wars (the ones that have resulted in by far most
death and injury and that have drained the US treasury were all begun under the
Bush administration.
>>Or "feel" is right. I could fly into a rage, or pretend to, and shriek, "how
>>dare you typify me as a tea bagger..yadda yadda yadda."
I think it is pretty evident why I typify you as a Tea bagger -- your rhetoric
comes straight out of their playbook..
Cheers,
Chris
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