Well there are some interesting things in this list. It is specially interesting for the study of the scientist mindset, but not only that.
The projections of your own wishes and phobias on me is not worth considering. 2014-08-26 12:37 GMT+02:00 Kim Jones <[email protected]>: > > > > On 26 Aug 2014, at 6:48 pm, "Alberto G. Corona " <[email protected]> > wrote: > > After some time going trough these topics one reach the conclusion that > these "explanations" are nothing more than computer fashion applied to the > wrong kind of problem. > > > > "One" reaches this conclusion. That "one" is you and you alone. > > > And second, to hide with new terms the immense pride craziness and vacuum > in this circular phrase, > > > > Which phrase? > > > that summarizes everything said in this boring discussion group: > > > > If it's so boring, why do you keep showing up here? There can be only one > answer to that. You NEED people to not only understand your views. You want > others to LOVE you for them. You hanker for respect and for recognition. > You need others to AGREE with you because that increases your egoic pride > and sense of self-worth. You need this list more than this list needs you. > > > > (1)We reject any ultimate meaning and purpose, > > > > Define "ultimate meaning and purpose" in a way that is not just a > statement of your personal preferences and prejudices. You cannot. You are > a ragbag of intolerance and fascistic thinking. > > > > therefore, to explain the presence of purpose, laws of nature and order, > then this order must be local, and every other non ordered variants must > exist. There must exist nothing and everything at the same time. The > universe has zero information and has no meaning because we reject meaning > and purpose. goto (1) > > > > How can the universe have no meaning because a bunch of people in the 21st > century sitting behind computer screens and conversing with each other in a > way that irritates you happens on a daily basis. I think you are due for a > trip to the psychiatrist. > > > > "everything is trivial if the universe is not engaged in a metaphysical > adventure" - Nicolás Gómez Dávila > > > This guy seems a bit of a scewball too. Define "metaphysical adventure". > Now that's a pretty meaningless phrase. Maybe go have a lie down or watch > TV for a change. You have said nothing of any value in this post except > parade your fascistic intolerance once again. > > Kim > > > > 2014-08-23 3:46 GMT+02:00 David Nyman <[email protected]>: > >> I must confess that I've been reading the MGA revisited thread with a >> certain sense of frustration (notwithstanding that Russell has made a >> pretty good fist of clarifying some key points). My frustration is that I >> have never been able to see why we need an elaborate reductio like the MGA >> to dispose decisively of a *computational* theory of mind on the basis of a >> primitive materiality. The crux of the argument is whether the >> "computational" part of the theory can be reduced without ambiguity to the >> action of a physical device (e.g. a computer or a brain). If not, what >> we're left with looks like a crypto-materialist theory in computationalist >> disguise. In point of fact I agree with Stathis that multiple realisability >> is already sufficient to establish this point. But let me elaborate a >> little further. When we consider the matter, we don't actually observed >> "computation" (in any rigorous mathematical sense) in physical reality. >> What we observe in practice are physical devices of various kinds (indeed, >> in principle, indefinitely many kinds) that we accept FAPP as adequately >> instantiating particular classes of computation within certain fairly >> stringent limits. To put it another way, we are prepared to interpret the >> normal physical behaviour of such devices *as if* it instantiated the >> mathematical notion of computation. But at all times it is sufficient to >> assume that such behaviour, be it of computers or brains, is constrained >> exclusively and exhaustively by physical law. It's their net action, as >> physical devices, that is at all times assumed to be essential, whatever >> "computational" (or other) interpretation may be ascribed to them >> externally. Unfortunately, these otherwise rather obvious facts tend to be >> obscured in ordinary, and even in technical, discourse by the free >> intermixing of software and hardware paradigms. >> >> These considerations should make it clear that any description of the >> normal behaviour of a physical device as computation can only be in a sense >> that is, ultimately, metaphorical. This extends to any software >> re-description of physical action, as for example Brent's Mars Rover >> analogy, or Dennett's "third-person absolutist" take on perception and >> cognition. On the assumption of a "primitive physical reality", such >> descriptions can (and indeed must) be understood as metaphorical and >> approximate, not literal and "absolute". They are grounded in the >> assumption of their ultimate reducibility, and approximate equivalence, to >> some kind of net physical action. In this light, physical devices don't >> literally "compute"; the most we need to say is that their physical >> behaviour adequately *approximates* computation, under suitable >> interpretation and within certain limits. Under such constraints, it would >> seem that a so-called "computational" theory of mind could in fact amount >> to nothing other than the claim that consciousness is a *state of matter*. >> This particular state of matter, it would be claimed, must obtain whenever >> physical action happens to be approximately re-describable (at some >> arbitrary level) in terms of a certain class of computation. But given that >> the theory is grounded, and is at all times expressible, in terms of an >> explicitly physical, as distinct from mathematical, ontology, it is hard to >> discern how such a "computational" stipulation could contribute anything >> intelligible to the claim. >> >> ISTM that the foregoing considerations are sufficient, on their own >> merits, to establish the necessity of the reversal at Step 8, if a >> *computational* (as distinct from some sort of tacitly crypto-material) >> theory of consciousness, is to be salvaged. If so, it is indeed clear that >> the task becomes at least twice as hard as before, as the observed >> correlations between matter and consciousness now have to be justified on >> the basis of an ontology that is (mathematically) adequate for a general >> and rigorous (as distinct from local and approximate) emulation of >> computation. >> >> David >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Alberto. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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