> On 13 Sep 2014, at 4:57 am, Platonist Guitar Cowboy
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 7:48 PM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Zero, even though they were all superstars and doing quite well for
>> themselves. Sure, there are examples of great selflessness in the name of
>> stepping forward together too, but this is rather exceptional. PGC
>
> One example that proves me wrong nicely and shows we can do without
> conveniently ignoring each other, even if we share similar lines of work:
>
> Little excursion:
>
> The relation between Gustav Mahler and Arnold Schönberg. In short brute form:
> Mahler championed the classical world, while Schönberg started to experiment
> with 12 tone music of 20th century. On many levels, one could think this is a
> parallel to the encounter of Einstein and Bohr, classicism versus quantum
> simultaneity, ancient Hellenic forms versus brave new world of
> incomprehensible peculiarities, God vs. a game of chance playing for truth.
>
> After a disastrous first dinner (the kind where Schönberg terminated the
> evening meal he was invited to at the Mahler House by storming out into the
> Vienna streets, after talking shop had become a bit too serious after some
> glasses of wine), Mahler would not only reverse his view on Schönberg's
> character, but in exemplary form simply acknowledge:
>
> "I don't really understand what he does, but my ears are growing old". He put
> everything where his mouth and songs were: Mahler would give Schönberg
> references as Musikdireketor in Vienna, help Schönberg's music get
> played/published, even insist with public verbal reprimand that the snobby
> Vienna elite stop screeching their chairs on the floor during a Schönberg
> performance, get physically involved in throwing out a rabble-rouser at
> another performance, and even financially support the young Schönberg.
>
> Mahler didn't "get" Schönberg's music, but he gave the provocateur that
> questioned the entire musical legacy he stood for and represented, benefit of
> the doubt.
>
> Imagine Einstein doing this for Bohr.
>
> In music however, Schönberg spearheading the new paradigm and school of
> thought would not stop him from becoming one of Mahler's most adoring fans
> which is evident from letters or his reaction to Mahler's 8th Symphony.
>
> There are countless other examples in which people rectify mistakes and get
> over violent/competitive histories. In the end Mahler's heart shines through
> the histories, the technical quagmires, and differing musical theologies and
> theories between the two. No need for this competitive posing around. It can
> be done. And where there are strong women and men, it is. PGC
>
It's not really that profound methinks, though I enjoy greatly your detailing
of the fascinating love/hate between Gus and Arnie. Actually they were a couple
of Jewish intellectuals competing with each other in the way that Jewish
intellectuals always have and always will. Competitiveness amongst Jewish
intellectuals is a lot of what drives science and art. Bohr was not Jewish so
Niels and Albert simply weren't on the same wavelength.
Kim
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