On 03 Nov 2014, at 23:31, John Mikes wrote:
What I tried to hint at is the 'reality'(??) of the BASIS of our
"optimistic side of scientific speculation, not the nth consequence
of the mth imaginary idea.
The 'God' concept as Creator ( or: the Big Cave-Bear?) is fantasy-
born and exploited as a policy-support (in Bill Maher's lately
words: a psychotic mass murderer - ha ha).
Out of such start-up came 'Scriptures' and misguided explanations,
hecatombes and massive beheadings, torture, burning at the stake,
rotting in cave-like jail, etc. etc. all in the name of 'love',
'justice', forgiveness' and 'afterlife rewards', whichever comes
first.
Humanity built it's science on imagination, explaining under/
misunderstood observations - and - mathematics. A huge system.
Humans, predators of their own kind as well, apply the mental
prowess to vile. The social organiztions turned into exploitation,
self defence into imperialistic warring.
Now the demise of our planet is also touched: human activity helps
the global deterioration (climate warming, sea-level rise, ferocious
storms and less rainfall etc.)
Something like that...
Science is agnostic. That is why we need to put back theology in
science, so that we can develop agnostic theories, or narratives,
precise enough to show them wrong, and progress.
The problems rarely come from the ideas or theories, but only from he
fact that some people dare to impose ideas to others by violence
(verbal or with bullets).
I like your agnosticism, and the computationalist theory explains why
for all machines, agnosticism optimizes the ability to change your
mind and recognize that a theory is wrong in this or that aspect. It
is the pre-condition of progressing toward a possible truth we can
hope for.
But even if we find it, we can't communicate as such. It will just
happen that some ideas will never be refuted, despite their many
consequences.
For this to happen, we need to take our theories seriously, and work
them out.Taking something seriously does not mean taking them as dogma
or truth.
In the fundamental realm, nothing should be taken for granted, but
simple assumption are needed, as we cannot explain anything without
some assumption, in the public setting.
Bruno
JM
On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 3:18 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List <[email protected]
> wrote:
JM
to both cases no! But I have never piloted an SR-71, nor, circled
the star Antares. I was going for the optimistic side of scientific
speculation, rather than the everyday. Having said that, you, from
my point of view-made your point. If we're speaking of our species
and its descendents, why not go for the highest hanging fruit?
-----Original Message-----
From: John Mikes <[email protected]>
To: everything-list <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, Nov 1, 2014 3:09 pm
Subject: Re: Do parallel universes really exist, and interact
Spudy: did anyone ever realize a "contact" with those "other"
universes, so you can decry a 'possibility' of such?
Same for 'immortality': did anyone ever meet an 'immortal'?
JM
On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 9:23 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List <[email protected]
> wrote:
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
Perhaps this is too much being raised on the twilight zone, but I
wonder if this provides any means to interact or make contact with
these world/universes? This is of course too much to hope for but
the study kind of seems to direct the mind towards that possibility.
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <[email protected]
>
To: everything-list <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, Oct 31, 2014 04:05 PM
Subject: RE: Do parallel universes really exist, and interact
Sounds a lot like MWI, but asserts that the parallel universe's
subtle interactions explain the weirdness of quantum mecahnics
Read more at:
http://phys.org/news/2014-10-interacting-worlds-theory-scientists-interaction.html#jCp
Griffith University academics are challenging the foundations of
quantum science with a radical new theory based on the existence of,
and interactions between, parallel universes.
In a paper published in the prestigious journal Physical Review X,
Professor Howard Wiseman and Dr Michael Hall from Griffith's Centre
for Quantum Dynamics, and Dr Dirk-Andre Deckert from the University
of California, take interacting parallel worlds out of the realm of
science fiction and into that of hard science.
The team proposes that parallel universes really exist, and that
they interact. That is, rather than evolving independently, nearby
worlds influence one another by a subtle force of repulsion. They
show that such an interaction could explain everything that is
bizarre about quantum mechanics
Quantum theory is needed to explain how the universe works at the
microscopic scale, and is believed to apply to all matter. But it is
notoriously difficult to fathom, exhibiting weird phenomena which
seem to violate the laws of cause and effect.
As the eminent American theoretical physicist Richard Feynman once
noted: "I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum
mechanics."
However, the "Many-Interacting Worlds" approach developed at
Griffith University provides a new and daring perspective on this
baffling field.
"The idea of parallel universes in quantum mechanics has been
around since 1957," says Professor Wiseman.
"In the well-known "Many-Worlds Interpretation", each universe
branches into a bunch of new universes every time a quantum
measurement is made. All possibilities are therefore realised – in
some universes the dinosaur-killing asteroid missed Earth. In
others, Australia was colonised by the Portuguese.
"But critics question the reality of these other universes, since
they do not influence our universe at all. On this score, our "Many
Interacting Worlds" approach is completely different, as its name
implies."
Professor Wiseman and his colleagues propose that:
The universe we experience is just one of a gigantic number of
worlds. Some are almost identical to ours while most are very
different;
All of these worlds are equally real, exist continuously through
time, and possess precisely defined properties;
All quantum phenomena arise from a universal force of repulsion
between 'nearby' (i.e. similar) worlds which tends to make them more
dissimilar.
Dr Hall says the "Many-Interacting Worlds" theory may even create
the extraordinary possibility of testing for the existence of other
worlds.
"The beauty of our approach is that if there is just one world our
theory reduces to Newtonian mechanics, while if there is a gigantic
number of worlds it reproduces quantum mechanics," he says.
"In between it predicts something new that is neither Newton's
theory nor quantum theory.
"We also believe that, in providing a new mental picture of quantum
effects, it will be useful in planning experiments to test and
exploit quantum phenomena."
The ability to approximate quantum evolution using a finite number
of worlds could have significant ramifications in molecular
dynamics, which is important for understanding chemical reactions
and the action of drugs.
Professor Bill Poirier, Distinguished Professor of Chemistry at
Texas Tech University, has observed: "These are great ideas, not
only conceptually, but also with regard to the new numerical
breakthroughs they are almost certain to engender."
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