On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 6:20 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> Something can be conscious but not intelligent, but if it's intelligent >> then it's conscious. Consciousness is easy but intelligence >> > > > John - take the amount new knowledge you assert I just the above > sentence. From where or what do you acquire this position? >
I've been over this many times on this list, a rock may be conscious but because it doesn't behave intelligently I (and you too) assume it is not. And neither of us could function if we thought we were the only conscious being in the universe so we assume that our fellow human beings are conscious too, but not all the time, not when they are sleeping or under anesthesia or dead, in other words when they are not behaving intelligently. Some of our most powerful emotions like pleasure, pain, and lust come from the oldest parts of our brain that evolved about 500 million years ago. About 400 million years ago Evolution figured out how to make the spinal cord, the medulla and the pons, and we still have these brain structures today just like fish and amphibians do, and they deal in aggressive behavior, territoriality and social hierarchies. The Limbic System is about 150 million years old and ours is similar to that found in other mammals. Some think the Limbic system is the source of awe and exhilaration because it is the active site of many psychotropic drugs, and there's little doubt that the amygdala, a part of the Limbic system, has much to do with fear. After some animals developed a Limbic system they started to spend much more time taking care of their young, so it probably has something to do with love too. It is our grossly enlarged neocortex that makes the human brain so unusual and so recent, it only started to get large about 3 million years ago and only started to get ridiculously large less than one million years ago. It deals in deliberation, spatial perception, speaking, reading, writing and mathematics; in other words everything that makes humans so very different from other animals. The only new emotion we got out of it was worry, probably because the neocortex is also the place where we plan for the future. So if nature came up with feeling first and high level intelligence only much much later I don't see why the opposite would be true for our computers. It's a hell of a lot easier to make something that feels but doesn't think than something that thinks but doesn't feel. >> I am certain you have met people in your life that you wouldn't hesitate >> to call brilliant, and you've met people you'd call complete morons, but if >> you don't examine the same thing that the Turing Test does, behavior, how >> do you make that determination? >> > > > John, sure I would examine something empirically > And that is exactly what the Turing Test does. > if necessary. It often isn't. > It often isn't?!! Then I repeat my question, if you don't use the same thing that the Turing Test uses, behavior, how in the world do you tell the difference between a genius and a moron? > So it comes down to the logic of the Test. If Turing proposed a test that > was based on intelligence testing what is his reason for leaving > intelligence testing, which was highly standardized in his time, > Turing didn't need to prove what the best way to test for intelligence is, he didn't even need to explain what it means; all he was saying is that whatever intelligence is and whatever method you use to test for it you should use the same method for both humans and machines. And the Turing Test is not perfect even when applied to humans, sometimes a human can appear to be smarter or dumber than he really is, nevertheless it remains valuable because despite its flaws it's all we've got. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
