On 04 Jan 2015, at 09:29, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote:
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]
] On Behalf Of Bruno Marchal
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 7:59 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From
quantum theory to dialectics?
On 03 Jan 2015, at 07:17, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
wrote:
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]
] On Behalf Of meekerdb
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2015 9:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From
quantum theory to dialectics?
On 1/2/2015 9:05 PM, 'Roger' via Everything List wrote:
Even if the word "exists" has no use because everything exists, it
seems important to know why everything exists. How is it that a
thing can exist? What I suggest is that a grouping defining what is
contained within is an existent entity. Then, you can use this to
try and answer the other question of "Why is there something rather
than nothing?".
If everything exists, what doesn't exist? Nothing.
If nothing existed; would it remain nothing?
Careful not confusing "Nothing exists" and "Nothing exist".
In the first case, something exists. But not necessarily in the
second case.
Okay… I see you point. “Nothing Exist” is a hard abstraction to
wrap the mind around and the mind will try like hell to give nothing
a kind of existence because it is so impossibly hard to even imagine
the former.
The passge from "nothing exist" to "nothing exists", is the passage
from a level to the metalevel. Then you can apply the "reflexion
axiom", and oput that nothing in the real of what exist.
In that case you generate the von Neuman Kuratowski numbers:
1)
2) {}
3) { {} }
4) { {} {{}} }
5) { {} {{}} {{}{{}}}
Which can represent the natural numbers, or the ordinals, in set theory
1)
2) {} = 0
3) {{}} = 1 = {0}
4) { {} {{}} } = {0, 1} = 2
5) { {} {{}} {{}{{}}} = {0, 1, 2} = 3
...
omega) { {} {{}} {{}{{}} { {} {{}} {{}{{}}} ...} = {0, 1, 2, 3, ...}
= N
omega+1 = { {} {{}} {{}{{}} { {} {{}} {{}{{}}} ... { {} {{}} {{}{{}}
{ {} {{}} {{}{{}}} ...} } = N union {N}
etc.
This "etc" leads to Cantor ordinal
Of course not everything exists a priori. There is no divisors of
zero different from zero,
>>nor is there a cat-dog,
Not yet in our universe, but what about in fifty years from now
would it remain beyond our technical reach to fuse the DNA of a cat
and a dog to create this radical hybrid? Would it always fight with
itself… would it bark or meow J
I take your point however.
nor is there a triangle with four sides.
Then with mechanism, we can, assume that what exist are simply the
numbers 0, s(0), s(s(0)), etc.
I don’t think you are referring to set notation.. the empty set
being {}. So by “s(0)” do you mean an operation taking zero? A
specific operation perhaps: 0, sum(0), sum(sum(0)) etc. ?
It seems so but I am not sure.
s(0) = the successor of 0 (= 1)
s(s(0)) = the successor of the successor of 0 = the successor of 1
= 2
etc.
0 and s are primitive symbol of the arithmetical language.
All what is asked is the satisfaction of some axioms like
n = m implies s(n) = s(m)
s(n) = s(m) implies n = m
0 ≠ s(n) for all n
Then all the rest, God included, is part of a persistent number
hallucination, but "hallucination" should not be used as "unreal",
because the hallucination is real, and is what makes our lives, and
there is no reason to dismiss them at all.
The math makes this clear too by distinguish the
ontical existence Ex P(x) and only 0, s(0), ... exists in that sense
and the many and quite variate rich phenomenological existence:
whcih are obtained with the modal points of view, like []Ex[]P(x),
with [] being the box of self-reference logic and its many
intensional variants (which distinguish basicall all science
(biology, psychology, physics, even theology).
It is intuitive to me how a vastly deep self-referential recursion
of math could generate all manner of sublime subtle effects at some
far remove from the basic fundamental math underlying the self-
referential edifice.
OK. And with computationalism, that exists provably in the
arithmetical reality.
Bruno
-Chris
Bruno
-Chris
Brent
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