On 1/22/2015 9:44 PM, Kim Jones wrote:
On 23 Jan 2015, at 4:06 pm, meekerdb <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 1/22/2015 7:58 PM, Kim Jones wrote:
On 23 Jan 2015, at 2:15 pm, meekerdb <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 1/22/2015 6:57 PM, Kim Jones wrote:
On 23 Jan 2015, at 10:24 am, meekerdb <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 1/22/2015 9:20 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 21 Jan 2015, at 20:27, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/21/2015 3:48 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
If you completely discard the concept of "truth" and replace it entirely
with "evolutionary usefulness" - does that change anything?
I think it might. For example, suppose we all share the same consciousness. It
is evolutionary useful to maintain the illusion that this is not the case (thus
my previous rant).
If you "start with consciousness" then it is fundamental that consciousness if
not shared - otherwise I'd be conscious of it.
I guess you mean "is not shared".
But are you not conscious right now, we do share the experience of being
conscious, even if we don't share the exact same relative contents.
But I'm not conscious of you being conscious.
Brent
You are. Here you kid yourself. Even without comp we can say you are deluding
yourself here. You have "mirror neurons" which link your consciousness to that of
another. You cannot experience the experience of another but you will come as close
to experiencing it as you can without actually experiencing it - via mirror neurons.
If something like mirror neurons were not present in the human brain, nobody would
bother with anyone else at all as humans would not be in any way interesting to one
another and everyone would revert to their visceral mistrust of one another.
How about mirror gonads? I think that'd work too.
Just watch someone receive a swift kick to the gonads and try to resist
crossing your legs
If you have ever watched a porno and found yourself getting aroused by what the
people onscreen were doing - that's mirror neurons at work. We are all one person
sharing one vast, utterly vast consciousness.
They link my neurons to others the same way they link my neurons to rocks - through
perception. You do realize when watching a porno that it's an image on a screen. No
neurons are involved, except yours.
But neurons were clearly involved by others in the making of the image by the
participants onscreen, clearly. You are introducing the time postulate which would
seem to break the link between the two consciousnesses. I don't think it does. The
information about neuronal excitation (hence consciousness) is present however, EVEN
when it's only a movie.
Information about bodily positions is usually in the video - but information about
neuronal excitations? Was that there in the visuals before anybody knew about neurons?
Brent
Yes. But how else could perception work except via pattern recognition which comes
across in films? The film invites you to 'recognise' an experience you are having which
is describes by the contents of the film. The film does not describe something external
to,you. The film describes your experience as you watch the film. Before anybody knew
about neurons, people still had neurons and they worked. The point is - using porn as an
example (you could of course use anything involving the self witnessing someone else's
experience of something, even torture) that you vicariously experience someone else's
experience which makes you a participant in that experience at another level of meaning
which is perhaps the whole point of it. You undergo a delayed parallel neuronal
excitation process. You don't need to be up on neuroscience to understand why porn has
an effect, or watching base-jumping clips or whatever rings your bell. It's all to do
with shared consciousness - in this case via a VR simulation for you of what you want to
experience.
But you don't need special base jumping neurons or special porn neurons or special mirror
neurons - the respones can all equally be explained by the organization of the neurons.
Brent
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