On 04 Feb 2015, at 21:07, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
2015-02-04 21:03 GMT+01:00 meekerdb <[email protected]>:
On 2/4/2015 11:37 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
2015-02-04 20:00 GMT+01:00 meekerdb <[email protected]>:
On 2/4/2015 1:09 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
So I agree completely that there are levels of consciousness, as
there level of carness, but there is a level (whatever it is)
which when you're below it, there is no more consciousness... like
when it's 0 it's 0, it's no more positive, whatever word play you
want to do.
Notice though that you have to keep resorting to this qualification
"whatever it is", which tells me that it's arbitrary and just a
matter of words, that there's no principled dichotomy. It means
you can make-up a definition for the line, but it's just a way of
defining the word not a sharp operational distinction.
No it means there is a distinction... there is a line between 0 and
positive number, no positive number is 0... no consciousness == 0,
consciousness > 0... unless you argue there is no state of "not
consciousness" this holds true.
But in any case I think it's more important to recognize that there
can be qualitatively different kinds of intelligence and hence
there may be qualitatively different kinds of consciousness.
We did acknowledge this several times now... that doesn't preclude
"not consciousness" state, it is not because there is a lot of
consciousness state, that pure "not consciousness" does not
exists... unless you argue everything is conscious, in that case
ok, consciousness/non consciousness would not be a binary
dichotomy... but then a rock has a consciousness, which seems
rather absurd.
Of course I agree that some things are not conscious (including
sometimes myself). The original statement I objected to was Jason's
claim that consciouness is binary, i.e. it is 1 or 0, all-or-nothing.
I don't think that's what he meant (neither Bruno)... what he meant
is that you're either conscious (to whatever degree) or you're
not... there is no degree of unconsciousness.
Yes. And so there is no degree of consciousness. But of course, there
are many different consciousness states (of the common kinds, + the
many altered states of consciousness that we can encounter when
sleeping, or with entheogenic technics). Most are plausibly
incomparable, even if we can intuit that some are more intense than
other, but we cannot really compare them because we lack an etalon of
consciousness (which is normal for first person non describable truth).
Bruno
Quentin
Brent
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