I trust Lomborg far more than I trust academics who hold fanatically, not to reason, but to this red-green ideology of theirs. On addressing the problem, even Brent and I are seemingly on the same side in that we both want a massive switch to solar, and the best solution. But, alas, I am but a serf with zero influence. I would make billions and billions available for energy storage engineering, and not a cent to pay crony greens, salaraies, so they can donate to the mafia inc, elitist parties in the US.
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail -----Original Message----- From: Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> To: everything-list <[email protected]> Sent: Fri, May 15, 2015 05:52 PM Subject: Re: Michael Shermer becomes sceptical about scepticism! <div id="AOLMsgPart_2_5d2b43db-de9f-4263-b4af-3052ef42ee24"> <div dir="ltr"> Thanks. The story, as told by him, sound quite appalling. I googled him to see other sides of the story and found this: <a target="_blank" href="http://www.theguardian.com/environment/planet-oz/2015/may/15/how-conservatives-lost-the-plot-over-the-rejection-of-bjorn-lomborg";>http://www.theguardian.com/environment/planet-oz/2015/may/15/how-conservatives-lost-the-plot-over-the-rejection-of-bjorn-lomborg</a> Which is just political drivel... Conservatives blah blah blah, shark jump, losing the plot yada yada. These people really like their clichés. However, there's some evidence of cherrypicking on the part of Lomborg: <a target="_blank" href="http://www.theguardian.com/environment/planet-oz/2015/apr/23/australia-paying-4-million-for-bjrn-lomborgs-flawed-methods-that-downgrade-climate-change";>http://www.theguardian.com/environment/planet-oz/2015/apr/23/australia-paying-4-million-for-bjrn-lomborgs-flawed-methods-that-downgrade-climate-change</a> On one hand, Lomborg looks a bit shady to me. On the other, the increasing tendency for suppression of dissent in academia is quite troubling (not just on climate issues). Oh well. I guess there's nothing good in this world that politics won't turn into shit. </div> <div class="aolmail_gmail_extra"> <div class="aolmail_gmail_quote"> On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 8:58 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List <span dir="ltr"><<a target="_blank" href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>></span> wrote: <blockquote class="aolmail_gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> here is the article, Telmo, linked by Lomborg's own site. Good reading. <div> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.lomborg.com/news/the-honor-of-being-mugged-by-climate-censors";>http://www.lomborg.com/news/the-honor-of-being-mugged-by-climate-censors</a> <span> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail -----Original Message----- </span> <span>From: spudboy100 via Everything List <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>> To: everything-list <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>> </span> <div> <div class="aolmail_h5"> Sent: Fri, May 15, 2015 02:53 PM Subject: Re: Michael Shermer becomes sceptical about scepticism! <div> Crap Telmo, because its WSJ, its a paywall for cut and pastes. Basically Lomborg got dogged because he by some aussie academics, because be went against their holy conclusions. I am and admirer of John Kennedy, even though he made nearly lethal mistakes for the world, in foreign policy. A quote, "don't get mad, get even." I hope Lomborg does. He might just have with this unseen WSJ article. I will send a site link which will show the full article. Sent from AOL Mobile Mail -----Original Message----- From: Telmo Menezes < <a target="_blank" href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>> To: everything-list < <a target="_blank" href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>> Sent: Fri, May 15, 2015 11:22 AM Subject: Re: Michael Shermer becomes sceptical about scepticism! <div> <div dir="ltr"> Hi! <div> Most of the article is behind a paywall for me... <div> Cheers Telmo. <div> On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 3:43 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List <span dir="ltr"><<a target="_blank" href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>></span> wrote: <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"> Hello from the US. Here is an article by the WSJ, by Bjorn Lomborg, speaking to the climate cult ideology, that pervades acadamia. Like Lomborg, I have to believe in GW, but it ain't climate catastrophe, as the red-greens now choose to label it. Like Lomborg, I believe there are things we can to to mitigate it. In any case, here is a link to Lomborg's article (hoping it works, sans fee). <div> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-honor-of-being-mugged-by-climate-censors-1431558936";>http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-honor-of-being-mugged-by-climate-censors-1431558936</a> <span> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail -----Original Message----- </span> <span>From: Telmo Menezes <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>> To: everything-list <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>> </span> <span>Sent: Fri, May 15, 2015 07:52 AM Subject: Re: Michael Shermer becomes sceptical about scepticism! </span> <div> <div dir="ltr"> <div> <div> <div> <div> On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 12:21 PM, LizR <span dir="ltr"><<a target="_blank" href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>></span> wrote: <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div dir="ltr"> <div> <div> <span>On 15 May 2015 at 21:38, Telmo Menezes <span dir="ltr"><<a target="_blank" href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>></span> wrote: <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div dir="ltr"> <div> <div> <span>On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 3:07 AM, LizR <span dir="ltr"><<a target="_blank" href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>></span> wrote: <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div dir="ltr"> <div> <div> <span>On 13 May 2015 at 21:30, Telmo Menezes <span dir="ltr"><<a target="_blank" href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>></span> wrote: <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div dir="ltr"> <div> <div> <span> <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div> <span> </span> Clouds, especially high clouds have some effect. They reflect visible bands back to space and they also absorb and reemit IR. Low clouds tend to increase heat load because they reflect in the day, but they insulate day and night. It's not magic, it's just calculation. </blockquote> </span> Of course, I am not suggesting it's anything else. My question is about complex interactions between these several phenomena. Does a change in the composition of the atmosphere affect cloud formation? In what ways? Does temperature? <span> </span> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote></span> Is the idea that we shouldn't do anything because we haven't got a perfect model of the atmosphere? </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </span> Is it unreasonable to ask for evidence and serious risk analysis before messing with the energy supply chain that keeps 7 billion people alive? </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </span> Of course it isn't. Such risk analysis has been done, and it appears around 97% of the most competent people available in the field think the risks caused by the rising CO2 levels are more dangerous than the risks of doing nothing about them. </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> Ok, I wouldn't be surprised if you are right. I only claim ignorance, and ask questions when something looks fishy. I also care about science more than anything else, so arguments around what "97% of the most competent people" think mean nothing to me. For me, that is politician speak. Consensus are easy to manufacture, even in science. I care about correct predictions and a good understanding of the mechanisms. What makes these people so competent? Have they created models that led to correct predictions? This is all just intellectual curiosity anyway. My opinion on the matter has no importance whatsoever. 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