On Sun, May 17, 2015 at Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: >> So what? A injection is a function and a function is a machine that >> MOVES from one element in a set to another and ASSOCIATES it with elements >> of another set. All these things involve change. > > > > A function is not a machine. >
A machine is a collection of parts that performs an action, and so is a function. > There are a non enumerbale number of function from N to N, but only an > enumerable number of digital machines. The set of all subsets of digital machines is non-enumerable. And if non enumerable stuff, like the Real Numbers, actually exist and you are allowed to use them then so am I. >> I assume nothing, I know for a fact that NOBODY knows how to make a >> clockwork without using matter and the laws of physics, maybe someday >> somebody will figure it out but as of today NOBODY has the slightest idea >> of how to do it. > > > > Turing machine are not material clockwork but purely mathematical notion. > And that is why NOBODY knows how to make a calculation on a Turing Machine or on anything else unless they implement their mathematical notions with matter that obeys the laws of physics. Maybe someday that state of affairs will change but that's how things are now. >>> You can implement Turing machine in Lambda calculus >>> >>> >>> >>>> No you can not! >>> >> >> >> >>> Then not only Turing and Church were wrong, as they will both proves >>> this. >>> >> >>> >> Don't tell me show me. >> >> > It is long and technical, > Well then let's make this simple, just use your patented way to make calculations without using matter or energy or any of the laws of physics and tell me what the factors of 3*2^916773 +1 and 19249 × 2^13018586 + 1 are. >> I think you're talking Bullshit but it would be easy to prove me wrong, >> just make a Lambda Machine that makes no use of matter that obeys the laws >> of physics and make a calculation, any calculation with it. > > > > (lambda x x)(lambda x x) = (lambda x x)(lambda x x) = (lambda x > x)(lambda x x) = ... (example of a non stopping computation). > I see static pixels on a LCD screen, I don't see the slightest sign that any computation has been made. > > That computation is a mathematical object. It can be described as an > infnite sequence of "(lambda x x)(lambda x x)", > I agree, it's a approximate DESCRIPTION of a real calculation. And the blueprints of a 747 are a approximate DESCRIPTION of an airplane, but those blueprints don't act like a flying carpet that will fly to to Tokyo if you sit on them. >>> if you agree that 2+2=4, and if you use the standard definition, then >>> you can prove that a tiny part of the standard model of arithmetic run all >>> computations. >>> >> >> >> The word " run" involves changes in physical quantities like position >> and time. And what sort of thing are you running these calculations on? >> > > > No: "run" is defined mathematically, without any reference to physics. > Yes, so I guess you retract your previous comment and now realize that you can't "run all computations" or run any computation at all without making use of the physical. > You confuse [first iteration] > Enough with the "you confuse" crap! Every post of yours contains a "you confuse", put a little variety into your phrases. >> The set of all true statements is contained within the set of all >> statements, the trick is to separate the true from the false. > > > > We cannot separate them mechanically, but we can separate them > mathematically, > Wow that is wonderful news! Since you know how to separate truth from falsehood mathematically you know if Goldbach conjecture is in the set of all true statements or in the set of all false statements and thus you have won the argument. Ah but by the way, which is it? >You confuse [second iteration] > Enough with the "you confuse" crap! Every post of yours contains a "you confuse" [2 this time], put a little variety into your phrases. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
