> On 12-May-2015, at 4:00 pm, John Mikes <[email protected]> wrote: > > Russel wrote: > > Nondeterministic systems needn't have free will. > > then: > > My point still stands, though. We were discussing the dynamical chaos > Og was seeing, and Laplace's daemon, which operates in a deterministic > setting. > > The term 'nondeterministic' (leading to 'random?') is a nono in my views (and > I do not argue for their correctness, only for their LIMITED agnostic > nature). > Relations (what are they?) influence each other, I think so does the Laplace > daemon (I never met this guy) so in the churnings of the existence (Nature?) > nothing comes un-influenced (randomly, or in a CHAOTIC un-ruliness). > I consider chaos the outcome of orderly influences including (our) unknown - > even (for us) unknowable factors in the 'Everything' (Nature, whatever). > Furthermore: if chaos is ubiquitous, or: if random prevails unrestrained, we > would have no math-phys laws to observe (consider 2+2=375, or 56831) and e.g. > Ohm's law would be unfollowable etc. etc. etc. > > So far I did not meet an acceptable regulation about WHERE does the potential > of random, or chaos prevail and WHERE not? It cannot be a convenience rule, > like: "it exists there, and ONLY there, where we like it > and it does not disturb our natural sciences/mathematics etc. " > > A 'deterministic setting' IMO is the outcome of sometimes controversial > trends from diverse influencing tendencies - ALL OF THEM (known and unknown). > Whatever 'emerges' is entailed by some origins and influences and it is only > our ignorance that calls it 'random', 'chaos', or 'nondeterministic change' > etc. etc. > > In many cases we cannot predict what will happen, because our insight is > limited. 'Free will' is a good cop-out, the gods can even punish the > 'willer'. > This might be of interest: Tracking the Unconscious Generation of Free Decisions Using UItra-High Field fMRI:http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0021612 And my understanding of it: http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2014/08/divine-will-and-human-free-will.html
Samiya > Regards > > John Mikes > > > > >> On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 6:33 PM, Russell Standish <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 03:06:57PM -0400, John Mikes wrote: >> > Russell: >> > you wrote (among many many others): >> > >> > *"...No free will = deterministic behaviour..." * >> > >> > I would not equal the two in my agnostic views. There are lots of (known as >> >> Quite right. I should have written "No free will <= deterministic behaviour." >> >> (<= means "entailed by", not ≤). >> >> Nondeterministic systems needn't have free will. >> >> My point still stands, though. We were discussing the dynamical chaos >> Og was seeing, and Laplace's daemon, which operates in a deterministic >> setting. >> >> >> -- >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) >> Principal, High Performance Coders >> Visiting Professor of Mathematics [email protected] >> University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
