Brent concluded: *2+2=4. Then we discovered that these rules implied a lot of things we hadn't thought of. But they aren't "out there", they're in our language.*
This is 'MY' agnosticism talking: why do you think all the novelties are in our language, not "out there"? Our mind (whatever it may be) is receoptive to new input from 'out there' i.e. so far unknown content-items(for us) in the infinite Entirety. Once we start talking/thinking about them, they become OUR concepts (lesser- or better defined). Applied in ways how our human capabilities can do it. Then we beacome proud of it. JM On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 12:40 AM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: > On 6/12/2015 6:29 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > LizR wrote: > > On 12 June 2015 at 17:40, Bruce Kellett <bhkell...@optusnet.com.au > Arithmetic is, after all, only an axiomatic system. We can make up > an indefinite number of axiomatic systems whose theorems are every > bit as 'independent of us' as those of arithmetic. Are these also to > be accepted as 'really real!'? Standard arithmetic is only important > to us because it is useful in the physical world. It is invented, > not fundamental. > > So you say, and you may be right. Or you may not. The question is whether > 2+2=4 independently of human beings (and aliens who may have invented, or > discovered as the case may be, arithmetic). > > > It may well be independent of humans or other (alien) beings, but it has > no meaning until you have defined what the symbols '2','4','+', and '=' > mean. Then it is a tautology. > > Bruce > > > It is commonly thought to be discovered and so to be "ought there" > independent of human beings or any cognition. But when considered more > carefully what was discovered is that one can group pairs to things > together (at least in imagination) and have four things. So two fathers > grouped with two sons is four people. Except when it's three people. So > we said OK we'll *define* units to be things that obey the rules that > 2+2=4. Then we discovered that these rules implied a lot of things we > hadn't thought of. But they aren't "out there", they're in our language. > > Brent > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
