This is the truth of things, simply because it is. Which sort of supports my
view (I feel) of the world Elites, billionaires and the politicians they own,
are going against the existential interests of the West (is there a West?), in
order to make money off Saudis, Iranians, North Korea, Russia, China. When we
are dealing with survival, the elites are against our collective interests. Too
paranoid?
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
To: everything-list <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, Jul 15, 2015 5:47 am
Subject: Re: ISIS The Start of World War III?
On 14 Jul 2015, at 18:37, thermo wrote:
Is the War Against Terrorism World War IV ?
"War against terrorism" is a non-sensical expression, and since Obama signed
the NDAA 2012, I think that the war on terror is the same nonsense as the war
on drugs.
Then I tend to think more and more that the "terrorism" in the Middle-east is
mainly the continuation of the World WAR II, without saying. It is clear that
the enemy of occident are about the same as the enemy of Israel, the jews,
intellectuals, free-thinkers, secularity, democracy and freedom.
I read most of the text of the "armed group", and there is a definite
resemblance with Mein Kampf.
Some are just generalizing the hate up to the christians or anyone criticizing
them.
Occident has a big responsibility, as they do business with the most fanatical
entities, since long, which finance those armed groups. We continue to deal
with Saudi, Qatar, ..., and apparently we will deal again with Iran, which is a
mockery of all the Iranian people, and in fact, I think, of all people on the
planet.
A lot of problem in the Middle East have arisen when the Great Mufti of
Jerusalem decided to move on the German side, against the English at the end of
the War II, and it continues. It is supported directly or indirectly by the
anti-semites and anti-zionists, everywhere.
Bruno
2015-07-14 12:51 GMT-03:00 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
<[email protected]>:
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 8:56 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ISIS The Start of World War III?
My issue is that yes, at this point ISIS seem to present no domestic danger,
however leaders of the word have continuously underestimated their successes.
Italy may be their next target, or Spain in a Re-Conquista of their own.
Moreover, this ideology is not in its actions, alone in the Islamic world. But
they are, for propaganda purposes, the most honest, and clear, and yes,
successful.
A terrorist act here and there in Italy, Spain or France (or ANYWHERE) – and
that is all ISIS is capable of, even at a stretch – does not cause the targeted
society to crumble in abject submission. You mention re-concquista – I ask you
where is this re-conquista?, outside of the talk shows it is mentioned on.
So, what to do? Nobody (astonishingly) is asking my advice on this, or any
other matter, which is shocking to me. Having said this, I am supposing that
bad Ju-Ju is on the way, because of western weaknesses (my perception) and
prepare. It may not be ISIS that does the dirty dead, whatever "deed" that is,
but ISIS, like an aggressive, secondary disease, will take advantage of a
weakened immune system. You seem to have a lot of interest in energy, of
course, so if I were you, I'd focus on saving your own behind in the midst of
an "unplanned" power outage, that PGE, or Seattle Power and Light, will not
resolve for weeks, for this seems to be a juicy target, I'd wager. I am an
apartment dweller so following this advice myself (however hypocritical) is
unwise.
A single solar flare of the intensity of the super flare that was recorded in
the late 1800s would set up an induced current that would short out entire
grid, blowing transformers. This is something that actually can happen (in fact
it HAS happened less than 150 years ago) and would have far more disastrous
consequences for our society. Are we doing anything to protect ourselves from
this very real threat? Not much, as far as I can see; hardening the grid will
cost many billions of dollars, and unless mandated this money will not be
spent. So we continue on exposed to this – actual real threat (as opposed to
the bogey man threats you seem to love to focus on). This is just a single
example of our societal myopia.
The world will follow the Stronger Horse, so if ISIS goes from strength to
strength,
But ISIS is not going from strength to strength – Syrian/Hezbollah forces are
rolling it back from the west; Kurdish forces (+Iranian supported Iraqi forces)
are enjoying some success in the east (it is mixed, because the Iraqi army is a
shambles). ISIS is not strong. Don’t confuse brutality with strength; Iran can
take care of ISIS (and will, defeating the Saudi attempt (for what is ISIS?) at
interjecting itself into the arc of conflict now centered in Syria.
the Europeans will cut a deal with them, once ISIS gains more territory, gets
more cash, recruits more cash, whatever it takes. If not ISIS than Al Qaeda, if
not Al Qaeda, then Iranian Mullahs
Iran has never supported messianic global terrorist movements; Hezbollah for
example is a very kind of organization than say AL Qaida or ISIS (which it is
on the front line of fighting)
(check today's news! If not Iran, maybe Pakistan, if not Pakistan, North Korea,
if not North Korea, then a nice war in the Pacific with China, if not China,
then Putin. Maybe all of them at once, once we lose a city or three,
afterwards. The majority of of our species despises the weak, and I accept
this, but do not condone this. Just thinking of what anthropologists have
demonstrated.
I highly suggest you take a vacation from war fever it is unhealthy. China and
the US are not about to get into any war – it would be far to costly for both
sides and both sides know this! All the posturing in the South China Sea may
make for large headlines, but it will not trigger an actual large scale war.
Now the Ukraine is another story – though this is mostly a nightmare for the
Ukrainians themselves.
If the US has all this power, we surely have applied it wrong, or the political
will to use it against bad actors.
I wonder if you fully grasp just how much power even a single US aircraft
carrier group can project. I am speaking of real military power – not terrorist
rag tag actions of militarily insignificant actors such as ISIS. Terrorism is
the weapon of the weak; it is no sign of strength!
The extinction that you refer to could be alleviated with better energy
systems, and better housing systems.
Could be perhaps, but it isn’t being!
The richer people are, the lighter the environmental footprint.
That is BS! The US for example has a far higher per capita footprint than India
or China or Africa or South America.
Do realize, that the elites have do stomach to do this either yet-have you
noticed? There are great energy ideas but for some magical reason they don't
get traction. It reflects the same irresolution on dealing with international
totalitarianism. No will, no guts,
The world is run to produce short term profits for central global money banks;
as long as this remains the driver; world affairs will continue on as they
have, bouncing from regional war to regional war (war is good business, for the
death merchants and the death bankers)
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <[email protected]>
To: everything-list <[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, Jul 12, 2015 5:41 pm
Subject: RE: ISIS The Start of World War III?
No… not underestimating the vindictiveness of ISIS (and their ilk) at all; nor
am I disputing that ISIS are vindictive vicious monsters, actually.
This particular flourishing of assembled psychotic insane assholes most
certainly do suffer an extreme delusional messianic medieval minded hatred of
all others and are vindictive in the extreme. I harbor no doubts that they
would slit my throat – in their psychosis claiming it was for Allah -- if they
could.
I however do question their long term viability as an organization and movement
– even within the regional context within which they operate. For example, even
Al Qaeda itself is becoming increasingly critical of ISIS and its barbaric
brutality! When, even the preeminent jihadi global movement is finding their
acts to be horrific and unjustifiable you got to question their long term
viability as a movement!
I also question their strategic/tactical/logistical reach and doubt that they
can do much more than potentially causing a few sporadic terrorist attacks here
and there in the Western world and elsewhere (Africa, Asia for example). A
terrorist attack, even one of the hyper scale of 911 (which is historically
very rare), horrific as it may be (and I witnessed 911 up close and personal –
was in Princeton NJ at the time and the aftermath was something I will never
forget!), but yet still poses no existential strategic challenge for our
nation. Our nation will not crumble or be destroyed as an effective fighting
force because of something of this nature. Actually the opposite result would
ensue! The USA has continental scale strategic depth, global military,
political, cultural and economic reach. A ragtag upstart psychopath jihadist
brand name – e.g. ISIS – poses no actual existential threat to the US.
And that IS my point!
My corollary to this is that our planet is currently facing real actual
existential threats, which we can do something about – both in terms of
mitigating our impact and restoring the health of this planets living systems.
Few people like to consider that we are living at the kickoff of one of our
planets greatest extinction events – ever in its geologic history; an
extinction event that promises to be on par with the one that killed most of
the non-avian dinosaurs. This extinction event is triggering the beginning of a
new epoch for this planet – like all the great extinction events that have
preceded it. Each extinction event gives rise to a new era; our particular
extinction event is being given the name Anthropocene – it is in our honor. For
we, our species and the actions of our species, we are the driving causal
factor that is at the base of this wave of planetary dying, which is going on
right now.
I find this great wave of planetary dying; of species extinction (which is
occurring at a far higher rate than the historical average over the past say
ten million years)… I personally am far more troubled and concerned by this,
than I am by a regional group of medieval psychopaths in some far away land.
For me it is the principal of correctly stack ranking actual real threats to
our future in an ordering that actually makes sense – in a qualitative, real
world, fact based manner.
What are the real threats to our future? To humanity’s potential to achieve a
transformational leap into becoming a multi-planetary, solar system spanning
resource based, micro-gravity space (La Grange point) based industrial society!
If you want to stop ISIS, shine a bright light on Turkey, Saudi
Arabia/Kuwait/Gulf States, Israel and other regional actors who are behind
ISIS. Without these other actors (not so) covert support ISIS would crumble.
-Chris
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 11:51 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ISIS The Start of World War III?
All well and good, but I am surmising that you underestimate the vindictiveness
from others, who see life differently than yourself. For instance, the European
epoch of imperialism, which we all know about, is shameful look backwards for
the Europeans. For the Islamic expansions of the 7th century, the move into the
Indian subcontinent, the push into southeast asia, are considered a glorious
time for the Uma. It is considered a thing of great pride. The re-establishment
of the Caliphate, would get the community back into the grace of Allah, and its
return would be a sign from God that He is smiling down, and is pleased by His
people.
You and I don't agree with this point of view, but I respect that this view is
their "truth." I accept it as I must accept a natural calamity like an
earthquake of a plague. If you are asking whether it will be ISIS puling the
trigger on the Qufar? It might happen that way, and they do sell oil, so they
have finance. They also have audacity, which sometimes wins the day. But I am
not planning US foreign policy or am a defense department analyst. I do know
that if one despises somebody intensely, enough, they will go for the jugular.
There are different ways to defend the country. One would be applied green
energy systems, at first for emergencies like power outages, another, would be
to yes, do the shale thing, but also consider methane powered vehicles, and yes
biogas powered vehicles and homes. This could be a national program and worth
paying for, and thus, better insulate the US, or Australia, Japan, etc, from
let us say, the closure of the straight of Hormuz.
Remember, the question was originally posed about the strength of ISIS, and I
focused on the weakness of the current world leaders, and so far, their
weakness has empowered ISIS, and other actors in the world.
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <[email protected]>
To: everything-list <[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, Jul 12, 2015 1:57 pm
Subject: RE: ISIS The Start of World War III?
No I am objecting to the making of ISIS into the central existential problem
that must define our times; they are a largely regional phenomenon (with a
certain internet reach resulting from their use of graphic brutality). The
planet earth has far more serious existential problems than ISIS.
ISIS is a side freak show – a freak show of extreme brutality for sure, but a
freak show never the less. If Saudi/Kuwaiti funding was shut off the monster
would quickly dry up and wither away. ISIS is Iraq’s problem, it is Syria’s
problem, it is Iran’s or the Kurd’s problem perhaps, but it is not and never
will amount to an existential military threat against the West.
I do not see any good reason why our country should become even more involved
in this mess than it already is – having largely been responsible for the
creation of the conditions which led to the evolution of these psychopath
monsters in the first place. ISIS (nor anything like it) did not exist under
the Baathist regime of Saddam Hussein lest we forget; the Baathist regime was
an implacable enemy of Islamic fundamentalism; it was a Stalinist regime in
fact (a very different animal). The US (in its infinite wisdom) utterly
destroyed the Baathist regime in a series of bloody expensive wars and a ten
year long occupation of Iraq; ISIS is the predictable blowback of Abu Ghraib
and the US occupation of Iraq during the first decade of this millennium. Now,
I am not extolling the Baathist regime as a paradigm of humanism (though woman
and Christians, to cite some examples, had far more rights and opportunity
under Saddam Hussein’s Iraq than they do in the Iraqi “freedom” the US so
kindly brought to their land).
The US should focus more on taking care of our own country and let other people
sort out their own destinies. Let Iran handle ISIS (and to a degree ISIS is a
proxy war between the Gulf Arab regimes and the Iranians); why should we bloody
our hands in this mess?
ISIS is no existential threat to the US and if we stood out of the way (or as
we are to some extent to continue to provide discreet logistical and air
support) Iranian and Kurdish backed forces from one side and Syrian/Hezbollah
forces from the other side will keep ISIS very well contained.
Those who seek to learn about the rise of ISIS need to understand the roles
played by these various regional actors prominently including: Turkey, Israel,
Saudi Arabia/Kuwait/Gulf states in fomenting ISIS as a tool to destroy the
Baathist Syrian regime – and seen in the larger context of an arc of struggle
between Saudi, Turkish and Iranian influence broken down largely along
sectarian lines.
-Chris
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 8:53 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ISIS The Start of World War III?
I don't think this is Manicheanism, You are objecting to fact that ISIS does
bad things, or that people oppose the bad things that ISIS does? The leadership
of the US especially, view passivity on the US part, as an unalloyed virtue. On
the other hand, with the president's involvement wit Iran (read the news
tomorrow) may have decided to adopt a "let em kill each other," policy in which
Sunni's and Shia, massacre each other. Perhaps with the thought that with
enough war and massacre's maybe a calm will then take place?
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <[email protected]>
To: everything-list <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, Jul 11, 2015 9:48 pm
Subject: RE: ISIS The Start of World War III?
Who elected you dispenser of prizes, ignobal or otherwise…. net nanny?
As you make clear by your own subsequent words I can see you must be a fellow
sufferer of the Manichean delusion, speaking in those exaggerated apocalyptic
tongues you types favor.
Thanks, but no thanks… I don’t need, desire or see the fruit in your peculiar
kind of religion; mind set; world view… whatever you wish to call it. It is not
based on a rational analysis of actual geopolitical strength, but rather
appeals to irrational Manichean idiocy and lurid anecdotal tales told over and
over again.
This world of ours is enough of a tinder box already without the added idiocy
of war mongering nutters – like ISIS as well -- wanting to ignite another
crusade/jihad.
I hope this makes my opinion even clearer to you.
Just in case, in typical Manichean fashion you use my complete rejection of
your hyperbolic world view, as a rhetorical hammer to try to shape me into some
kind of sympathizer or something vaguely treasonous sounding – as your fellow
crusader spudboy has in fact insinuated in my case on numerous previous
occasions – let me – a priori – make it clear that my current complete
rejection of your insane fallacy does not imply any kind of support or
tolerance of the medieval minded brutality of the murderous lunatics of ISIS.
Just so we are clear on this, and because this is a usual rhetorical tactic
that war junkies commonly use against those who publicly oppose their agenda.
Now speaking directly to your facile and childish disparaging of the term
“psychological mind ghosts”. If you actually knew the mind – instead of merely
pontificating about it, which you seem to do a lot of -- you would know that
there is quite a bit of evidence that our minds are inhabited by numerous
zombie neural processes, of which we remain consciously unaware; these are our
mind ghosts; they are ghosts in our minds. We – the conscious self-aware part
of ourselves at least -- are to a large degree informed and formed by these
dynamically evolving entities comprised of synchronized neural firing networks.
They can take dynamic movies of these neural firing networks evolving as
thoughts form and perception is perceived! If we did not have any ghosts in our
minds; would we have any minds at all?
Those who think their self-aware minds are comprised by the narrative voice in
their heads alone, are suggestive of those who, for so long believed the
celestial bodies revolved around the earth. If, in fact, you accept that by far
most of who you are actually occurs outside of the boundaries of your own
self-aware narrative (and narrator); then why on earth would you feel that
“psychological mind ghosts” was just an insult, worthy of your net nanny
interventionist response, awarding me the most Ignobal prize – so kind of you
to do that really.
More people die of bee stings… bathtub falls… and certainly far more people die
and become horribly wounded in traffic accidents than people dying by this kind
of terrorism; yet you seem to want to raise it up on the altar of some bloody
crusade around which we must all align ourselves marching lemming like over the
cliffs of oblivion. Excuse me, but I am going to pass on that world view, and I
will continue to ridicule it as well; it is a world view most richly deserving
of ridicule.
Let us laugh together… for it is patently ridiculous that ISIS poses an
existential threat to the USA, or even to your own country Australia. Unless
you are living in Syria or Iraq, or somewhere that is too close to the small
region where ISIS has the logistical ability to pose a threat then it is not a
threat and to insist that it must be our most existential cause around which we
must all rally… well that just reeks of fascism to me.
Yours truly,
-Chris
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kim Jones
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 5:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ISIS The Start of World War III?
On 12 Jul 2015, at 3:09 am, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
<[email protected]> wrote:
You suffer from raving psychological mind ghosts; carefully nurtured paranoid
Manichean delusions brought upon by the ingestion of too much war propaganda.
"Psychological mind ghosts" - Lol.
I think with that you probably score the Ignobel Prize for adjectival abuse.
SB's thinking on this is entirely rational and highly probable from where I am.
Western leaders ARE all as weak as piss. They are all screaming for someone to
come along and rip their bloody heads off with a blunt bread knife, yes. Icke
is something of a nutter, but he at least has the balls to face the music that
no one else does.
Kim
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 8:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ISIS The Start of World War III?
Icke is an interesting, but paranoid character. If ISIS, or any element from
the Islamic World causes a 4th world war (The Cold War was actually WW3), then
it is not any member of the Uma's fault, but instead the weakness, the
cowardice, the irresolution, of 'so called' Western leaders. Perfection with
one's fellows humans is fraught with disappointment, because people will always
disappoint. But, the leadership of the so-called West, is so bad that it
invites attack from ISIS or anyone else.As Bin Laden said, "People like the
stronger horse." Leaders here are so weak, that if ISIS attacked, they might
win. Who now knows?
-----Original Message-----
From: Samiya Illias <[email protected]>
To: everything-list <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, Jul 11, 2015 1:36 am
Subject: Fwd: ISIS The Start of World War III?
Begin forwarded message:
ISIS The Start of World War III?
David Icke interview
Video link:
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?266299-ISIS-The-Start-of-World-War-III
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A los hombres fuertes les pasa lo que a los barriletes; se elevan cuando es
mayor el viento que se opone a su ascenso.
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*thermo*
http://www.mechpoet.net
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